america is an armed society.
every year a huge number of americans take to the woods in pursuit of deer, elk and other critters of the fur, feathers and flesh persuasion. and, if you read hunting magazines and gun magazines, you will well recognize that they are armed with very sophisticated weapons, in some measure, such as optics and ballistic aids, the rival of the most modern military organizations.
so, say that america erupts in rebellion against the gun confiscation measures being cooked up by obama and minions, apparently to be spearheaded in congress by the likes of pelosi, reid, feinstein and others of that ilk. senator feinsteins pronouncements relative to her legislative aims include words like "confiscation," and "registration," long despised and detested words among pro-gun americans.
if she wanted to "press some buttons," she's pressed some buttons.
what can we view as the likely model of american insurrection?
update: this post is linked at http://middleoftheright.blogspot.com/2012/12/siddownpour-yerself-cuppa-joe.html , dated december 28, 2012. this post is the link at the very bottom of his article. i didn't link the post just to tell you i'd been linked. there is a very interesting and cogent section of the article that discusses the mathematics of resistance to firearms confiscation. the gist of it is, while the combined police forces of the state & federal gub'm't's have a lot of people and guns, so do we, and we have the ability to mount a massive and successful insurrection, if we need to in order to assert our liberties, and protect our heritage. end update.
update no. 2, 01.07.2012: this post has probably "done more traffic" than any other i have ever posted, and because of this i have been exposed to very many fine blogs and wonderfully written posts. were i on the other side of things, in other words, were i a leftist zealot supporter of obama and his wanna be thugs, the reaction to the gun grab proposals (as noted in these articles) would give me a certain amount of pause.
none more so than what i am going to link for you. not because of the strength of its rhetoric or zeal, ..., but in a way, quite the opposite. the following article is not a polemic, rather it is a very quiet and measured appraisal of the ethical issues raised by a person faced with enforcement of gun legislation, and of the moral and ethical duties imposed by someone faced by this issues of "gun confiscation" on his porch, and at his door.
it is the well reasoned and measured belief of this writer that he faces a moral, ethical and religious duty to confront oppression with resistance, up to and including lethal force, within the context of any efforts to confiscate his weapons.
"if they come for your guns, do you have a moral responsibility to fight," by dean garrison at "the dc clothesline," posted jan 3, 2013. http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-they-come-for-your-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/ . mr. garrison's answer is "yes," it is your duty and moral responsibility as an upholder of the constitution, and of our history and heritage, to fight illegal authority whenever confronted by it. it is an answer i thoroughly endorse. end update.
at this blog, http://wintersoldier2008.typepad.com/summer_patriot_winter_sol/2010/06/-to-not-resist-aggression-it-is-immoral-.html, june 12, 2010, by this writer.
well, it won't be along the lines of major tank battles on open terrain, such as witnessed recently in the middle east. syrians, iraqis, egyptians, hezbollah and hamas have proved it foolhardy to go up against the modern armor of the west, principally the armies of the u.s. and israel.
fighting modern armies on open terrain is a rather foolhardy proposition, unless you are the top of the military food chain.
no, i believe that the model of conflict in the middle east as we have witnessed the last several years during the "arab spring" and other insurrections provides the proper intellectual modality to anticipate the outlines of such conflict by civilians against an established and entrenched regime.
the fighting in syria, and in lybia is illustrative. and, we have no further to turn than chechnya to witness a fight carried on by a determined populace against a very strong and very well equipped modern military.
the fighting will be in small scale conflict in urban and suburban environs, with the persons conducting the insurrection attacking fixed governmental installations, and then retreating back into the cover of the environment when its damage has been inflicted. and, as between political elements in society, the fighting will be much like has been exhibited in iraq for the last 5 or 6 years, as the various groups have engaged in kidnappings and street assassinations of their opponents. this will be waged citizen to citizen, if it comes to that.
the fighting against the forces of the establishment and government shall be directed against visible but vulnerable members of the military and civilian police, chiefly the command elements. (for reasons discussed later.)
the fighting between civilians shall be in the form of assassination of prominent members of society, the media, entertainment, and the members of the media attacking and defending the government. someone walks on the street, a car pulls up, a fusillade, and a body drops to the ground. the prominent are attacked in their homes, in their work, in the broadcast studio.
in short, those who fight the repression of government shall do so much as terrorist do so now.
as this goes on, we find the answer to the central conceptual issue.
and that is, just how entrenched are the forces of american government, and just how much loyalty to the government trying to enforce gun control, and all the other forces of societal control that lies behind it?
ghaddafi looked pretty solid when the various rag tag groups took after him. assad looked pretty strong. and, the mullahs in iran proved surprisingly weak against the forces of protest that took after them, until the actions of barack hussein obama shored them up enough to survive the attack.
what is key here, is how do the various armed forces, military and civilian end up supporting the obama regime if it comes to that. when those forces start to quit the field because they don't want to fight their brothers and cousins, when they don't want to infringe upon ancient liberties, then the unassailable might of the regime becomes very assailable.
the fight is actually on right now.
it is an intellectual and emotional battle.
obama propounds gun control standing amid the graves of children killed by a lunatic in connecticut. this will be the government's stand.
so far, i think the government loosing. despite all of the emotional gravitas given its position, and bulwarked by the deaths of these children, i don't sense an overwhelming groundswell of public opinion to confiscate weapons.
except amongst the literati and the cognoscenti and the mass media. they are behind obama all the way. they are to be considered the propaganda arm of the obama regime, plain and simple. no "media" passes in this conflict.
just as in the middle east, as the arab/muslims and israelis vie for the upper hand with the media, this will be a battlefield in an american insurrection over gun control. and, because the media and entertainment types are allied with obama, they will be viewed as members of the regime trying to impose gun control, and they will become targets of insurrection as any other minion of the regime.
the attrition among the media and the talking head types should be considerable in my estimation. they will be targeted, and little mercy shall be shown them. in my estimation, there is not much love for them in the public, ... , even little katie kouric is despised.
it shall be an intellectual battle, along with considerable blood being shed. (yes, i know that is oxymoronic, but, that is the way it is, ... , the political/propaganda/and provo arms of the insurrection walk in lockstep.) the regime shall burst through doors in the night, and try to spread terror & intimidation among the populace, as the forces of tyranny have done the entire 20th century. the insurrection shall target senior command, and will target news reporters and anchors and t.v. executives, even as it tries to woe the common soldier in the ranks.
it shall be bloody, and vicious, and no quarter shall be given.
the undertakers will profit.
john jay @ 12.27.2012
p.s. and, when it is done, and the regime defeated, no one will talk about what he did in the war. it shall have been terrible, and brutal. executions, murders, assassinations and the inevitable collateral damage shall be the issue of the day.
this is the price that those who attempt to impose a totalitarian regime in the america's shall face. many of us will die. and, some shall become iconic photos hanging from lamp posts, stripped naked and hoisted by their ankles, as final witness and testimony to their arrogance.
those who seek to take our weapons trifle with history, heritage and firmly held belief. and, it should be remembered, those of us who believe this way are god fearing, and shall invoke and beseech our god for support. we have a religious underpinning and faith that shall carry us through this, as opposed to those who seek to suppress us. they have nothing but naked ambition to sustain them.
do obama, pelosi, and feinstein have the stomach for this sort of conflict? are they willing to initiate in order to try and gain the rule they aspire to? we shall find out.
and, i am pretty convinced that they shall find out, too, and in spades. (i think it machiavelli who first made the sage observation, based on moses i think, that the prophet seldom lives to see the promised land. something for all "prophets" to keep in mind, surely. be careful, where you try to lead a surly people. if my history is off, please correct me.)
Regarding the machiavelli comment;
http://melita2historica.x90x.net/hw200514.html
Regarding the overall theme of your thoughts;
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/insiders-warn-of-more-false-flags-to.html
Here are two websites you may find have quality information;
http://maxvelocitytactical.blogspot.com/
http://notourblood.blogspot.com/
A belated merry Christmas and good wishes for the new year to you, although current events, if continued, will most likely diminish the positive outlook for the short term, at least.
Grog
III
Posted by: Grog | December 28, 2012 at 07:45 AM
Excellent post.
Here are some more intel akin to activist post.
I don't know if these are to be beleived or not but it is good food for thought. We are close to the cauldron bubbling over, imho.
www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/25/ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding-why/
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/27/why-ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding/
Keep in mind the battle of Lexington, 70 Militia took down hundreds of Gungrabber Redcoats.
The shot heard round the world.
Posted by: JD | December 28, 2012 at 11:32 AM
grog iii :
just up. didn't sleep well.
it will take a while for me to read and digest your links.
i have a short post in mind, on where the battle will be fought.
john jay
Posted by: john jay | December 28, 2012 at 11:37 AM
jd:
i will read this afternoon, after "lunch."
scrambled eggs and home fried taters. i have a potato that is sprouting at the eyes, so i've got to get rid of it before it goes soft.
john
Posted by: john jay | December 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM
I believe that some of the military will switch sides and join with the freedom fighters. Not all. Remember, we do speak the same language. When the British were having desertion problems in the Revolutionary War, they hired Hessian soldiers because they only spoke German and most colonists didn't.
I think that if some of the military leaves the socialists, the side of freedom would end up with lots of weapons and ammo and other such war materiel. Then it would snowball from there.
Just my (0bama inflated) $20.
Posted by: Stranded in Sonoma | December 28, 2012 at 11:47 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this but I hope your correct. I see only the ignorant and uninformed around me who will be shocked if your scenario comes to pass. Instead of taking down the talkers in the Obama propaganda mill we need to take down the stations and replace them with truth. I don't see an up side to this but it's clear we have no one in our government who's willing to fight this regime so there will be no other choice.
Posted by: Benson II | December 29, 2012 at 09:07 AM
benson ii:
yes. yes. yes.
john jay
Posted by: john jay | December 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM
stranded:
excellent points on the hessians. though, some of 'em probably had cousins here, even then. but, an excellent point .... the military will find it very distasteful to turn their guns on family and friends, ... , and, most importantly, upon their beliefs.
the military is far closer to us, than to their bosses in the civilian command structure. and, there aren't very many wesley clark in the command structure, for that matter.
good points, all.
john jay
Posted by: john jay | December 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM
Oath Keepers and the like will split the US military and we will see the rise of efforts to guage if a soldier is progressive enough to follow orders that are contrary to the Constitution.
Posted by: theBuckWheat | December 29, 2012 at 04:32 PM
buckwheat:
"progressives" usually have not been the sort to be among the ranks of the unlisted.
we see a few "careerist" types in the officer ranks, but, fortunately, not many.
i don't see the sons and daughters of the privileged and the left rushing to join the military.
they don't believe in enough to put their bodies and lives at risks.
i don't think the ranks will relish the prospect of shooting friends and family.
we'll see.
john jay
Posted by: john jay | December 29, 2012 at 08:56 PM
oops, sorry ....
better make that "enlisted."
oh wha tugu siam.
Posted by: john jay | December 29, 2012 at 08:58 PM
OK, then what? The civil war starts with one or two incidents, somebody famous gets killed, the left screams for more draconian measures, more killing, then order and discipline breaks down. Now we've got a full scale blood letting on our hands, and after all is said and done, the citizenry "win". Then what? What form of government do we have? The Constitution will be null and void, whoever is in charge of what's left will have the same problems the current regime has.
Your game plan stops short of the true outcome. Well written, yes, but you haven't explained what happens after that. To me, the 'what's next' is far more important.
Posted by: Chris | December 30, 2012 at 02:46 PM
chris:
you raise interesting points, which must be addressed.--
as a general observation, it is foolhardy to predict "history."
it happens, and lots of things are unpredictable.
it seems to me, however, that the left, obama and his minions, are the ones who force the issue, and are the ones who set events in motion.
but, i would think, that the constitution would not be null and void after a successful insurrection. those of us who would press it, do so in affirmation of constitutional principles, and in affirmation of the constitution.
it seems startling clear to me, that is obama, and his henchmen and -women who seek to destroy and abridge constitutional privilege and right.
it is obama who wants to take my right to have guns away, and, who, i am convinced will next move on the right to free speech.
as to our current problems.--
well, i do not think it entirely accurate to say that we would have the same problems we have now, because those problems would be addressed in a markedly different fashion than they are now.
we would have horrendous debt to face up to, and we would have to pay it, as best we could. (this by the way, was the circumstance of the nation when founded, and it was faced by payment of the debts that existed. simple as that.)
the "game plan" will be addressed, in a logical and concise function. suffice it to say, at this point, that i simply don't agree with your basic assumptions.
john jay
p.s. i have an interesting video for you. it is about nicolai causescu's trial and execution.
it is brief. his trial was brief, he execution (along w/ his wife) just out the door of the court room.
it was all very summary.
it is an interesting video, as the soldier who commanded the execution appeared on the film, something of a narrator to the events.
it is interesting to watch his face as events transpired, and as he relates them.
some were grief stricken by ceausescu's death.
others celebrated.
i suppose it is something of an historical judgment as to whether romania is better or worse off with his execution.
it seems to me that most romanians felt it necessary, historically and as it happened.
here is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhTflHfPhgc .
you tell me how it all turned out, and whether it was entirely predictable.
but, if you are on a street, and someone marches up and punches you in the face, does the fact on whether you fight back or not turn on how you think it will all turn out?
Posted by: john jay | December 30, 2012 at 03:31 PM
p.s. -- to chris --
in my view, these are the risks that obama and his minions undertake.
they set this in motion by trying to abridge rights and privileges that belong to us, not because of the 2nd amendment, but precedent to it. these are rights gained under the magna carta, and viewed as natural law to political philosophers like john locke and sir william blackstone, the great codifier of the english common law.
these were the veiws, by the way of the founders, who fashioned the constitution.
read "the federalist papers" by jay, madison and hamilton if you need the above propositions substantiated. you'll find that if you read the u.s. code annotated that the "federalist papers" are part of the american "organic law," along with the declaration of independence and the constitution as adopted.
obama runs this risk of civil war, he precipitates it by his actions.
in my view, he does this only because it is necessary to further his agenda once he has grabbed the guns.
what other motive can he have?
Posted by: john jay | December 30, 2012 at 03:44 PM
John,
You and I are on the same page as far as the opposition goes. The current administration and Congress have no legitimacy, and the left has overreached on virtually all fronts.
I posit my question as more of a quandary than an oppositional declaration. I've sworn the oath, twice. Do I subrogate that oath to achieve a short term goal? Do I abrogate the protections of the Constitution once the trigger is pulled? If so, how do I then demand the protections of the Constitution when I have denied those protections to those I oppose?
Don't get me wrong, I'll man up, stand up, and fix bayonets when the time comes. But there will be changes when the blood stops flowing. My question will be the same. What then?
I have read the Federalist Papers, and the "Anti Federalist Papers." or the Bill of Rights.
The former won't stand without the latter.
I know what his motive is. Doom on him!
Posted by: Chris | December 30, 2012 at 09:11 PM
chris:
welcome aboard.
those who resist this, do so to affirm the constitution, and of our rights and liberties.
the oath that counts the most is the one that affirms truth. the truth of this matter is that the nation was founded so that human potential could flower in liberty (not unfettered license.)
any oath that subverts that is in the service of someone else's personal ambition, and is largely something that is coerced.
god, family, country, and above all, honor and freedom.***
those are the values that last.
john jay
*** throw in a little piety, humility and rectitude, ... , and, you've got a pretty solid person.
Posted by: john jay | December 30, 2012 at 09:37 PM
The blood letting will be done with NATO forces, and they are already here.
The gubment wants to kill off a couple hundred million of us anyway because they dont need us for labor anymore like they used too.
Posted by: David | January 02, 2013 at 03:17 PM
david:
as to the gubment.--
they always need us for taxes and cannon fodder.
as to the nato forces.--
most excellent. good. capital. i say that, because people will have absolutely no reluctance to kill those bastards.
they will stick out like sore thumbs. they do not know "the lay of the land."
and, if they are like all other nato troops, their blue hats will make excellent aiming points.
john jay
Posted by: john jay | January 02, 2013 at 03:29 PM
This all sounds great. Very inspiring. But not very realistic.
Look, I hate the government. I am not personally afraid of death. And I will never register or surrender my guns.
But I am a family man. I have small children. We are having a baby tomorrow. A BABY. A TINY, HELPLESS BABY. That baby, my other child, and their mother need me. What is it that you expect me to do, put on a tricornered hat, pick up my Mossberg (I can't afford an AR-15 -- I have a BABY to feed) and go stand in front of the Post Office or something? What the f--k good is that going to do?
The problem is lack of leadership. Local leadership. Local leadership by warriors who know what the hell they are doing and are willing to stick their necks out. I'll tell you what. If some retired Army or Marine Corps colonel in my area were to put up flyers saying "Patriots meet up at City Park on Sunday. Bring your gun", I'd do it in a heartbeat. But no retired Army or Marine Corps colonel in my area is doing that. They're all on the Internet posting "Molon Labe" to each other.
So what am I supposed to do -- post my own little flyer? No one would come to my freedom rally -- because I'm not a retired Army or Marine Corps colonel. I'm a Navy man. You want me to help you man a ship? Can do. You want me to organize an infantry company? Can't help you. I don't know a damned thing about the infantry.
I am just an ordinary citizen. I am not a commando, a special ops warrior, or even an ordinary grunt. I'm a middle-aged, out-of-shape Navy man with two young children, a wife, and a family business that the federal government is doing its damnedest to destroy. I CAN'T DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
So until someone in my area who knows what the hell they are doing steps up to organize a brigade here in my home town, I'm going to hide here with my wife and kids and prepare myself for a lonely death on my own front porch.
Okay, all you military geniuses. Step on up! this is your chance. When I see you guys drilling on the lawn outside City Hall, I'll believe your "Molon Labe" and join in. But if you guys expect me to dump my wife and kids and singlehandedly charge the New World Order with my 12 gauge, think again.
I have asked these questions on other websites. I have yet to hear any convincing answers. Until I get some, I'll just sit here and take care of my family until the black-suiters come for me, and then I'll die.
Posted by: Norman N. House | January 06, 2013 at 10:10 PM
norman:
you probably won't believe this, but this is something that i have been chewing around for some time.
i've been away from the blog for a bit, ... , the usual stuff, family, other things, ... , but these are things that need addressed.
been kicking it around, haven't got to the scribbling stage yet, but, will.
john jay
p.s. and, yes, you've hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: john jay | January 07, 2013 at 08:15 AM
I have the feeling that the administration and the gun grabbers believe that either we're all show and no go as the hotrodders used to say, or that they're so powerful that they're unstoppable. They may be right on both counts, and they might "win", but it'll be very ugly, dirty, and nasty on and for both or all sides.
Confronting the US military face to face won't win, and I think we all know that. The Afghans, the Vietcong, and others have done very well for themselves with little equipment. It will be "interesting".
Posted by: Snowman today | January 11, 2013 at 01:49 PM