summer patriot, winter soldier

beginning ballistics ... "jj's brit" ... an update on powders ...

i am pretty much convinced that i have simply run out of the needed case capacity to get much more velocity from the 130 grain bullet i favor in "jj's brit" with h-322 and imr-8208 xbr.  increments of powder just don't realize in significant additional velocity, indicating that the case has given all it has to give w/ these two powders.

(oddly enough, i will try a 140 grain sierra when i have time, and the first powder i will try with it will be imr-8208.  why?  well, powders are like automotive motors, and some just have a little more "torque" or "push" than others, which shows up in good performance with heavier bullets.  it is like hodgdon's dirty old classic, h-870.  it pushes 150 & 160 grain bullets in my 7mm mag not quite as fast as other powders, and it pushes 175 grain bullets to pretty much the same velocity as it does the lighter bullets with the same charge weights.  and, by the time it reaches the 175 grain bullets, it pushes them significantly faster than the other powders, which just run out of "push."  go figure.

i suspect imr-8208 may be the same way.  we'll see.)

this morning i tried some rounds with hodgdon's h-4198, and it gave the same 2550 fps or so as the other powders, but did it with a milder report and less recoil, and from all indications, with a much better and more consistent burn.

first off, there are no pressure signs with the load i used, that being 28.5 grains of h-4198.  the primers have their full radius with no sign of being flattened, there is no cratering of the primers, and case expansion at the head of the case is very good, e.g., no swelling of the case head, and the dimensions of the case not being expanded.

and, finally, the case is emerging fired from the rifle's chamber having very sharp and creased corners, as it should, and giving every evidence of expanding into the full volume of the case chamber, as it should.

in short, the powder is behaving as it should, and giving good performance.

please note.  i didn't just put 28.5 grains in the case, and blast away.  i started the reloading at 26 grains of 4198, and seated a 130 grain bullet over the powder giving the case an overall length of 2.260", the nominal dimension for an ar-15 type rifle.  i fired progressively heavier charges in 1/2 grain increments until i reached 28.5 grains, and 2550 fps.  so, charges with 26 grains, 26.5, 27.0, 27.5, 28.0 and 28.5 grains were fired in succession, until i reached where i wanted to be.  with each firing, the spent case was examined and measured to make sure no untoward pressure levels were being breached.

in other words, i went slowly, and watched for trouble.

it is age old advice, but, when reloading cartridges, start below maximum and work up from a safe level of performance until you reach desired performance levels.

if you don't know how to do this, don't do this.  simple as that.  find someone who does know what they are doing to help you.  as before, i suggest that you purchase and read a couple of good reliable reloading manuals, and i prefer the speer and nosler books.

and, remember.  i am not a ballistician.  i make no guarantees that any of what i say is a good path for you to follow.  proceed at your own risk.  end note .

i am very satisfied with how things are going.  

but, this may put a bit of an end to looking for a better load.  my thinking right now is looking for a semi automatic rifle to put this round into, and i am looking at the ar-15, the ruger mini-14, and perhaps the soviet/chinese sks/model 56 infantry carbine.  the latter intrigues me, because it may be acquired very cheaply.  and, if i cobble up one for a test mule, well, that doesn't signal the fall of western civilization, or the economic collapse of greece, france, italy and the euro union:  lots of other indications for that, of course.

update, hodgdon's h-4198:  last evening, i sojourned to the mountains chronograph tucked under my shoulder, five rounds loaded w/ 29 grains of hodgdon's h-4198 behind the 130 grain sierra's, intent on seeing if i could best 2600 fps velocity.

mission accomplished.  the first two rounds posted speeds of 2623 and 2609 across the chrony, respectively, and all without any obvious signs of excessive pressure.  bolt lift was absolutely effortless, hard to know i'd just fired each round. 

i think i have a load.

now, to get on paper, and tweak things a bit until i have satisfactory grouping.  compared to getting my 6.8mm remington spc to shoot, this has been pretty much effortless.  so far.  sometimes good grouping can be hard to attain, but, this round just feels good.  end update, 05.01.2012.

another update, 12.13.2012 .  since this was posted, i've tried other powders, and several w/ some satisfaction.  seating bullets out to the overall length of 2.445", i have used imr-3031 and win-748 with good resulting velocity, with the later powder getting 2750 fps from my rem-chester mule, using cases fabricated from r-p once fired .30-06 commercial brass.  the remchester is a bolt action rifle in very good condition, the chamber is very tight, and the r-p cases are very heavy in construction.

i won't give loads.  i will indicate that quickloads has been a very accurate predictor of pressures and performance, and accounts very accurately for the reduced case volume for cases fabricated from the .30-06 cases.

i am very close to having an ar-15 built, probably a couple months away, depending upon delivery of a barrel blank.   i will load my initial loads for it using the h-4198 powder, as it gives a very complete burn with the short seating involved with the ar-15 platform.  (2.260" will be the overall length for the ar-15 platform.)  this should give me low residual pressures at the gas port, even with a mid-length tube.

wish me luck.  i am hoping for 2500 fps w/ 130 grain sierra bullets and the use of h-4198 powder.   we'll see.   that would be, in my estimation, very very very good performance.  this is not too far below .300 savage performance, and just about on a par with the 6.5mm mannlicher and the 6.5mm carcano, and the 7.35mm carcano/terni.  you would be better cautioned not to scoff at this.--the italian and mannlicher cartridges inspired the russians to the 7.62x39mm, the "gold standard" in intermediate infantry rounds.  you don't believe me?  get your reference books out, and compare dimensions.  do sufficient reading to understand that the russians evaluated the above cartridgeds when developing their model 43.  and, understand, the finns used quite a few 7.35mm's in the wars they fought with the russians prior to, during, and after ww ii for territory around the eastern shores of lake lagoda.

the russians had more than a passing respect for this "pipsqueak" cartridges, having suffered casualties from them, ... , you respect that which has killed you.  also bear in mind that the russians went w/ a .308/.311 caliber bullet in the 7.62x39mm, eschewing the clear opportunity to "invent" the 6.5x39mm grendel 65 years before dan alexander thought of it.

why did i choose the .284" caliber bullet for "jj's brit."  well, because i am smart, and good looking, and have excellent judgment in such matters.  and, i read the analytical articles on this written by ballistics pathologists, who say that the .284" caliber bullet is an excellent choice in such matters, and i defer to my betters.   end update.

john jay @ 04.30.2012

update p.s.  and, don't forget, .284" caliber bullet weighing 140 grains is what the brits chose for the .30/280 british.  the .30/280 is perhaps the superior round of all intermediate infantry rounds ever conceived and built, and the british scientists/engineers/gun builders and ballisticians knew what in the hell they were doing.  no one has ever topped them, imho.  end p.s. update, 12.13.2012.

barack "the one & true hussein" obama is the devil incarnate, but, i will not vote for mitt romney ...

update, 10.29.2012.   well, i've changed my mind, and i am voting for romney.  i have watched him in the debates, and he is very bright, and very articulate, and looks very presidential.  i am still disappointed in the republicans for not calling in the tea party and sarah palin, and i think it a major mistake.  i am/remain reasonably optimistic that romney will prevail.   obama, on the other hand, looks silly trying to take advantage of hurricane "sandy," just silly, just very opportunistic: i hope trying to exploit this natural disaster backfires on him.  god be with us, and protect us from folly.  pray.  end update.

nothing wrong with stupidity, it is time honored & observed.

arrogance, on the other hand, has little to recommend it.

when you combine the two it has no good effect.

witness mitt romney, and the republican party.  after being handed the 2010 mid-term elections on a silver platter by sarah palin and the tea party, the republicans have repudiated both, and have said they will ignore their help in the upcoming presidential election.

very stupid, for all that palin and the tea party gave them in 2010, and the height of arrogance to posture and pretend that the election results had anything to do with the institution of the republican party.

i will no longer perpetuate this.  i will not vote in 2012, and i will especially not vote for stupid republicans.  in my view, the nomination of romney simply signals that the republicans are quite willing to stay the no. 2 pig at the public trough, and are willing to consign this republic to damnation simply to retain their share of the spoils.  after all, the second best view on the deck of the titanic as it went down offered a splendid view, i am sure.

so, to hell with the republicans.  

if i vote, (and, i may, as consistency is, after all, the hobgoblin of small minds), it will be for a tea party or other similar "alternative" conservative candidate.  perhaps even ron paul, if he takes a run at it.

as far as i am concerned, the republican party is of absolutely no remaining utility to me, or anyone else for that matter, and its earlier death is to be considered a worthwhile thing.  better oblivion for the republicans, than an ineffectual inanity.  and, this election will certainly be a shot right into the old brain pan for the republicans, though i am convinced that is hardly a fatal place to shoot them.

mitt romney, herald of a glorious future, indeed.  i have a slogan to suggest to the republicans, and that is, "follow mitt to oblivion."  it seems apt enough to me.

john jay @ 04.30.2012

how do i get rid of all this crap on my dashboard, that i do not want and that i find completely without interest? john jay

somebody is looking over my shoulder .... fuck 'em ....

for the last month or so someone has been running their hands through the guts of my computer, and my computer services.  kinda like having your handy drawer ransacked, eh?

i had an incident where both google chrome and internet explorer denied access to both atlasshrugs and jihad watch.  no other sites were impacted by this, and i could routinely go to other commonly visited sites such as espn, and the like.

on another occasion, i could not visit washington rebel or gates of vienna.  on both browsers.

i find it odd that two entirely unrelated browsers would malfunction on the same isolated websites, and that the websites affected were of, shall we say, a conservative bent.

this morning, google chrome worked just fine, but when i went to sign into my gmail account (yes, when you are in your google account, you are in your google account), or shall i say, when i attempted to get into my gmail account, i was denied access.

i do not much cotton being dicked with.

and, yes, i think someone is practicing for the big shut down.  all i have to say is, it's always dinner time at the homestead, so come and get it.

john jay @ 04.17.2012

 

p.s.  "numeric code: 93"     and, of course, google is just helpful as hell.  laughing. 

the biggest blunder in the history of american politics .... the republicans snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ....

update:  romney looses election.  he hasn't a fucking clue.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/18/opinion/borger-romney-veep/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn .  "romney won't make mccain's mistake," cries the headline, over a picture of mitt romney talking to john mccain.  the gist of the article is romney's search committee for a vice-president.  the implication is that sarah palin lost the election for john mccain.

these republicans are so far out of touch w/ reality is is scary.  sarah palin was the one thing that revitalized john mccain's very poorly run president campaign in 2008, and she & the tea party clearly handed the republicans the house in 2010 campaign.

the republicans repay her by turning their back on her, and by blaming her for john mccain's stupidity.  hey, he was born that way, and he flew that way.  stupid.  this article means, of course, stay away, sarah palin, we don't need you.

romney looses big, turning his back to a major assett.  you read it here.  end update, 04.18.2012.

 

two years ago sarah palin and the tea party led a resurgence in the fortunes of american conservatives, and the american people, really never seen in our times.

the fervor generated by palin and the tea party ran so high that the republicans got back the u.s. house, and took major gains in the senate.  the joy was dampened, of course, by the fact that the dip-shit obama still occupied the white house.

two years ago, the white house was ours for the taking.  by "ours," i mean conservatives, plain old fashioned middle class people, and the republican party.

i believe that the democrats will kick ass in the fall elections.

and, it is entirely the fault of the republican party establishment, at this point the biggest bunch of dullards on the planet.  i suspect they barely have the native wit to suck air.

not only did they turn their backs on palin and the tea party, they have repudiated and denigrated them in a fashion fully the equal of the most scurrilous liberal attacks.  they have captured none, not one ounce, not an iota, not a scintilla of the enthusiasm and fervor that led the changing of the guard two years ago.

they haughtily cast aside that which had given them victory, much as the fat matrons at their side wear a gown to one party, and then take it back to macy's for a return.  the idiots think they deserve the privilege and standing that came to them, as though a gift from god.  they did not understand, it was palin conferred the gift, ... , and they spurn god's gift to the rest of us.

let's just put the matter simply, and bluntly.  the dumb fucking bastards think it was all their doing.  the lame dick-less chickenshit assholes were conferred a victory they did not earn, nor did they in the least understand it.

well, they will likewise suffer a defeat of equal magnitude this time around in entirely in the same fashion, without having the slightest compression of how it happened.  obama and his campaign will out slicker them at every turn, and they will see none of it coming, nor even understand what is happening as it is happening.

they have proven themselves that stupid.

john jay @ 04.16.2012

p.s.  it is simply time for conservatives to pull out of the republican party.  the party is worthless.  it is interested in nothing more than maintaining its position as the junior pig at the trough.  what a hapless bunch of dip shits.

p.s.s.  prediction.  they haven't the native wit to ask palin back to the party, after they have treated her so shabbily.  they choose to bore us to tears to victory.  not a very clever strategy, in my estimation.

the last article on case fabrication .... whodda thunk it, laughing ....

when i first set out to figure out how to fabricate a cartridge case that would be a reasonable facsimile of the .30/280 brit, if not exactly a duplication or replication, i stated that i sought to do so using common sources of materials and tools, and that i wished to avoid the cost and difficulty of making the .280 brit itself.

in my first article, i noted that if a proper set of .30/280 british sizing & forming dies, and chamber reamers and other allied articles could be found, that they would be horribly expensive.  and, so it has turned out.

rather, i limited my approach to using things readily at hand in terms of tools and materials, and that would be reasonably expensive.

"and, it turns out, that the .30/280 british cartridge is going to be relatively easy to duplicate, at least in spirit and in general dimensions."

"i think my solution, when you consider it from the dearth of resources available, and potential costs involved in doing it the conventional way, is, well, just pretty damned elegant."

note:  read the posts.  they are indexed.

drew, from www.barking-moonbat.com, has informed me that reloading dies for the .30/280 brit are available from several sources, which i have related previously in another post.  he wonders if that has dampened my enthusiasm for my project?

not in the least.  as expected, the reloading dies (mentioned by drew) retail at about $170, exclusive of tax, shipping & handling.  if you buy the dies, you are going to have to buy a forming die.  and, if you go beyond making cases to actually making a rifle to shoot, you are going to have to buy a chamber reaming die, and the services of a gun smith with machining skills to fabricate a barrel for you, and to install and head space it on a receiver.

you are looking at close to a $1000, and perhaps $1500 if you buy a top notch "match grade" barrel.

my way is far easier, far cheaper, and gives you a cartridge/cartridge case combination that is very little different in some respects from the original .30/280 british, in terms of dimension and performance, and which is in some respects superior to the original design.  some work is involved, yes, but you are not going to avoid work even if you buy the "original" die sets.  you are still going to have to fabricate & load your own cases, and you are gonna have to learn about bullets and powders and such.

the case i have fabricated is one stout little dear.  she's rugged.  she'll stand the test of time, and use, and she'll stand beside you.

look at the little dear.  this is one very robust case.  --

caption:  these cases were section with an abrasive disk on a dremel tool.  the marks on the case on the right were made by a screw holding the disk in place, ... , my apologies.  but, look at the thickness of the case walls, especially in the case mouth holding the bullet.  i do not know how the .30/280 british was fabricated, nor the dimensions of the case walls.  but, if they were heavier than those obtained by fabricating the "brit" from a once fired .243 winchester case, i would be very surprised, indeed.

caption:  i want you to notice a couple things revealed in this photo, (besides the fact that i am not an accomplished photographer, which is rather obvious.)  1.)see the darkened ring in the interior of the case mouth, about 40% up the case mouth from the top of the shoulder?  well, that "ring" is the junction of the case body and the case shoulder in the .243 winchester case from which the "brit" is fabricated.  the case mouth above that is the slope of the shoulder, and the case mouth below it is from the cylinder/body of the case itself.  friends, that portion of a case is very strong, perhaps stronger than any other part of the case with the exception of the head/web portion.  2.)notice how the exterior of the case mouth is shiny?  that's because it has been "neck turned," e.g., the exterior of the case has had material removed from it by the operation of a small hand lathe.  (turned by me, not an electric drill.  right down to basics, here.)  look at the bottom of the neck, (right hand side of the picture, to you) right where it joins the slope of the case shoulder.  notice that the lathe turning actually goes beyond or past the point where the neck's cylinder is to be distinguished from the slope of the shoulder.   and, notice, there is no diminution of the thickness of the case neck from the case shoulder caused by this.  now look to the other side of the sectioned part, (left hand side of the picture, to you), and this is confirmed with absolute clarity.  the case neck has not been reduced in thickness whatsoever by the cutting of the lathe in turning the outside of the neck.  this is very sturdy construction, indeed.

 

i fully expect a long working life with these cases.

now, i will punish the first bunch of cases loaded and fired.  i will use a small number, and i will fire them repeatedly, looking for signs of case fatigue & failure, such as cracking, splitting and stretching, & the like.  i will do this, quite frankly, to see if any corrective steps have to be made in case fabrication in order to eliminate weak places in the case.

a word about annealing.  case annealing is a way to relieve stress left in the material and its form caused by the rigors of case fabrication.  when these cases were formed, a larger case was made into a smaller case, and a great amount of material (relative to the material in a given case) was moved and displaced to make a new form.  now, the original cases were pretty robust structures to begin with, and i have taken and moved them, and it took some force to do it.  it wasn't easy moving the resizing press handle, when the case shoulder of the .243 winchester was moved up into the part of the 7mm-08 die that forms the neck: the shoulder had to be squeezed down substantially in diameter, and moved down the case into thicker case walls.

it took some fiddling around to figure out how to do that, and i still loose a case now and again to the rigors of case fabrication, by way of cracks, splits and just outright collapse of the case walls.  there is no redeeming such failure.

if stresses such as this have left the brass weakened, or "work hardened," then those defects will show up in case failures of one sort or another during firing.

if they do, i will have to "anneal" the brass, which is to heat it and then quickly quench it in water, in order to soften it and to relieve the stress.  quenching brass in water works exactly the opposite of quenching steel in water, ... , quenching steel "freezes" it in the crystalline structure at the temperature in which it is placed in the water, even though the water eventually cools the steel.  it tends to harden steels, and can make it brittle.  quenching brass at a higher than ambient temperature tends to soften brass, and to make it more malleable.

so far i haven't, and i hope i don't have to.

time will tell.

conclusion of these articles on fabrication.

this is it.

any other articles will be on the process of loading the cartridges with primer, powder and bullet and shooting them to evaluate performance.

you've had pretty good reportage on this part of it, as it has transpired.  warts, mistakes, the whole shebang as she happened.

it's been fun for me.

john jay @ 04.13.2012

p.s.  update:  go here, for pictures of sectioned .30/280 british cases, and bullets.  http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkas:280_30_British_Ammunition.jpg .  it does not appear to me that the original military cases are as robust as the ones i have fabricated for "jj's brit."  i will look around to see if i can find case wall thickness dimensions, and provide some comparison.  end update.  

 

 

 

 

 

where's the presidential outrage, as a white guy is sucker punched, beaten by a mob and robbed again .... oh, yeah, his assailant & the mob were black ....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/maryland-beating/index.html?iref=obinsite  

this guy is where he doesn't belong, in a rough crowd of whores and pimps.  someone steals something from him, he turns to go get it, and is deliver a hay-maker sucker punch, and knocked to the pavement.

the crowd jeers, does nothing to intervene to help him, and other approach him and rob him again, and kick at him.

the assailants are black.  the victim is white.

i do not know if he is named trayvon or not.  who cares?  does that make a difference?

now, we shall see if the president intervenes in this case, to play to his black audience, to play his race card, to see if he can reconcile the races.  let us just see what he has to say about it.

i think that he will say that blacks are just "pushing back," if he says anything at all.  let's see.

john jay @ 0412.2012

"where no man has gone before," ... , as it turns out, maybe lewis potter was there before me, ... ,

note:  i apologize for the mish-mash below the cover of mr. potter's book front page.  the "word processor" at typepad is an absolute abomination, and there is no way in the world to get the paragraph and line spacing to "answer the helm" once a strange code makes its way in.  it is a joke, and i am truly sorry for it.  end note.

 

friends:

my first inkling of lewis potter occurred when a reader submitted a comment to my first or second post on my intentions to fabricate a case as close to the .30/280 british as i could get it, using materials & tools available to the common handloader.

i tried to contact mr. potter, and sent him several emails as the articles progressed with links to my posts, but, i heard nothing in response from him.  i had been told that mr. potter was in the gun trade, still, but what i did not know was that he is also a recognized authority on gunsmithing in general, and a published author on game management and riflesmithing.

this i learned this afternoon, finding his books on amazon after spending some time googling him to no avail in search of gunsmithing matters.

i think that it is only fair to recognize mr. potter's considerable contributions to such things in general, and also to recognize his association with the .280 british, which is apparently of some standing.

the below material lists his books, and also should establish his relationship to, stewardship & promotion of, the .30/280 british.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Riflesmithing-Comprehensive-Guide-Lewis-Potter/dp/1847972403/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2  

he's published two books, apparently, in which he has discussed the .280 british.  i should imagine he mayn't have cared for me saying that my cartridge was "better," by fortuitous accident & the circumstances of missing the fact that the "brit" was apparently fabricated from the american .30-06 cartridge, after he'd put the cartridge on the cover of his book, and built several rifles around it, as i am given now to understand.  (assuming, of course, he'd read any of my stuff on the .280 british cartridge: he may not have, he knows a little about it already, doesn't he.)

 

"riflesmithing" is about $65.00 from amazon, and "deerstalking" is about $26.00 .  they look interesting.)

hey, life is nothing if not timing.

1.)

"riflesmithing: a comprehensive guide," by lewis potter

publisher, crowood press (june 1, 2011)

isbn-13:  978-1874972408

isbn-10:        1874972408

2.)

"deer stalking and management," by lewis potter

publisher, crowood press (nov. 24, 2008)

isbn-13:  978-184790695

isbn-10:        184790699

note, look at the isbn no's carefully, they are not identical as between "10" & "13"  .   small differences.

i am going to the library, and see if i can get the books in on "loan."  i doubt very much that they will be in the milton freewater public library.  stranger things have happened, and if they are here in my library, i shall let you know.

john jay @ 04.11.2012

p.s.  btw, i do think my design is better, by way of the steeper shoulder and greater length to the shoulder, than the original .30/280 british.  btw, if you look at the picture on the cover of "riflesmithing, ..." you will kindly note that the bullet seating does not appear so very much different than what i arrived at, solely to stuff the cartridge into an ar-15 magazine well.

mr. potter may, quite obviously, have a differing view.  and, it just has to be acknowledged that mr. potter has been in this neighborhood before me.  i am going forward with my plans, as no gunstore in my neighborhood sells .280 british cartridges.  and, mr. potter's cover suggests the .280 he uses in his rifles may not be built on the .473" casehead, the earlier versions of the cartridge having a case head more akin to the various euro 6.5's of wwii, or pretty close to the case diameter of a .303 british in front of the rim.

these things i want to find out.  i wish mr. potter would correspond.

 

jj's brit ... cartridge schematic, & projected performance ...

update, safety issues:

i just received an email from drew, and he wanted me to remind people of several important safety considerations.  1.)the loads listed below and from quickload are maximums, and must not be exceeded.  in addition, all experienced hand-loaders follow the very old & sage advice of starting 7-8% below listed maximums, and working your way up towards them at 1/2 grain increments, watching carefully for pressure signs, and ease of extraction.   remember, these loads are in excess of 55,000 lbs. psi, and not to be trifled with: that is nearly 4,000 times atmosphere.   2.)the use of magnum primers is not needed, in all likelihood because of the small charge weights of powder, and normal large rifle primers from federal or cci will work just fine.  and, 3.)if i want to avoid personal injury, i should get his blog address correct.

it is drew at http://www.barking-moonbat.com/ , and that is a good link to his blog.  again, it is very entertaining, and i suggest you go there.

end update.  04.10.2012 .

 

the following cartridge drawing, and the loading data, are prepared by [email protected] (drew at barking-moonbat dot com, link above) using quickload and quickdesign, programs used by many to design proposed cartridges.  you may email drew at [email protected] .  and, i would visit his blog, were i you, just on general principles.

me, i just have things shortened by machinists and run the brass through the sizing dies, and measure what comes out.  i am a strictly seat of the pants guy.

i assert intellectual property in the following cartridge design, understanding how futile it is.  remember jerry gebby?  he invented the .22-250 remington.  and, the the .300 whisper developed by j.d. jones of ssk industries?  you can buy the identical cartridge called the 300 acc, or some such, and they remark discretely, may be used in .300 whisper chambers interchangeably.  of course it can, it is a rip off of jones and indistinguishable from his cartridge.

so, it is a conceit, but, a harmless one, and one that gives me some pleasure.

john jay @ 04.01.2012  (based on measuring data from a brass case out of my dies.  data sent to [email protected]  drew at www.barking-moonbat.com, email, [email protected] .)

drew was also kind enough to send some load data along, developed by quick load from the data i sent him allowing him to "calculate" the load volume in the above case.  i weighed my case empty at 161.9 grains, and weighed it full of water at 205.7 grains, giving it a weight of 43.8 grains, then converted to volumes.  his program "calculated" 162 grains of weight for the case based on the above drawing, derived from my measurements.

more than one way to skin a cat, eh?

again, from drew, and based upon his use of the quickload program, this data on expected performance based upon powder charges:

 

Ok, here you go ... using the CALCULATED water capacity, these are the top powders with pressures and velocities using the 1903 bullet at 2.26" OAL. "Z%" means how much of the powder gets burned up; I set things to use a 24" barrel. "Pmuz" is muzzle pressure; more = louder. QuickLoad is a bit optimistic for safety reasons, so actual pressures and velocities will be a little lower, probably. Hey, sometimes its right on the money.

 

 

Type	mc (gr)	fill (%)	vel (fps)	Pmax (psi)	Z (%)	t (ms)	Pmuz (psi)
Winchester 748	34.3	100.0	2704.8	57250.1	99.4	1.2	7251.4
Hodgdon BL-C2	35.6	102.0	2696.9	56777.5	98.8	1.2	7509.2
Ramshot TAC	33.7	98.0	2666.4	57250.1	98.9	1.2	7105.7
Hodgdon H322	31.1	100.0	2661.0	57250.1	100.0	1.2	6582.1
Vihtavuori N530	32.2	100.0	2657.3	57250.1	98.9	1.2	6979.2
Norma 201	33.0	101.0	2648.3	57250.1	98.8	1.2	6998.0
IMR 8208 XBR	32.7	102.0	2645.9	57206.4	98.8	1.2	6902.0

 

 

o.k., note something here.  these data are estimates, and stuff behaves it the real world as it behaves, and not as a computer "projects" it.  drew notes that quickload is pretty conservative, but, as in all things, please use a modicum of caution if you work up loads with this information, because if you don't, you are liable to blow some fingers off or an eye out.

use at you own risk.

understand, i used .243 winchester brass as manufactured by remington-peters, because it is somewhat lighter than 7mm-08 brass, or .308 brass as manufactured by the makers.  if you use the larger caliber cases note that they are heavier, and will make cases with thick walls that require neck turning/reaming (as do mine), and will have higher pressures than my loads.  high pressures make things go boom!!!

as an example, in my case, 36 grains of h-322 comes almost to the base of the neck.  i made a case that the gunsmith and i will use as a "go-no go" gauge in cutting the chamber out of .30-06 brass, the heaviest i could get through my dies without collapsing.  36 grains of h-322 filled that case a little over half way up the neck, ... , the point being that the heavier case has less volume, and the same charge will producing greatly increased pressure.

it behooves you to understand what in the hell you are doing if you get into this stuff.

at any rate, note that quickload predicts that these loads will produce from between 2650-2700 feet per second from a 24 inch barrel.  drew cautions that a shorter barrel will cut at least 100 fps from this figure.

this is right where i want to be from this cartridge.  i will, in fact, load it to achieve about 2500 fps from a 20" barrel, if i can get that.  if so, i am a happy camper.

this is very close to the original .30/280 brit's actual performance from an em-2 rifle (bullpup, so it had a barrel of adequate length to get good ballistics from the round.)  again, i am a happy camper.

john jay @ 04.10.2012

jj's brit ... steps in cartridge fabrication ...

 

update:  oh, snap!!  wouldn't you just know it.  after i have gone through all of this, friend drew at www.barking-moonbat.com has found two commercial sources for .280 brit sizing dies.  laughing.  now he finds them!!  well, makes no difference, i am gonna go through with my plans, because i think the "jj's brit" just a bit better, and more suited for the ar-15 platform.  i may be stupid, but, i am stubborn, too.

for those of you not inclined to punish yourself by hard work, here are the links that drew found to the .280 brit reloading dies.  hint:  they are expensive.  and, i don't know that case fabrication will be all that much easier.  and, i think my creation "better."

pick your poison.  

 

CH4D has the .280 dies IN STOCK. Oy vey.

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies/caliber-list/?field=desc&query=280+british 

 

So does Redding

http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/11-die-caliber-reference-chart

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38:custom-made-dies  

[email protected] .

end update.  04.12.2012

 

caption:

(just "click" the picture for a larger view.)

left background:  an empty 7mm-08 cartridge case, and a .22-250 loaded with a .284 bullet, for scale.

right background:  a .30-30 winchester and a dummy "jj's brit" for scale.

way way back background:  stuff, and a 7mm weatherby case found at the range loaded with a .284 bullet, and a 7mm remington magnum, for scale.

the front row:  a fired .243 winchester brass case; case run through the sizing die w/ the resizing stem removed, showing neck & case shoulder moved back, & elongated case neck; case w/ "excess" neck removed by "chopping" w/ dremel tool, and cut section of neck lying at case head; case run through the sizing die with the resizing stem in place, to give the neck the proper "inside" diameter for the following trim operations; case trimmed to length, & run through the neck turning operation to remove excess brass material from the neck, it will now be .311" (+ a smidge) in size w/ loaded bullet; and, a loaded round of "jj's brit" with a shortened 130 grain sierra bthp (stock # 1903) at its base.

well, this pretty much shows the labor involved in making these cases, especially when all tools are "hand powered," instead of electricity power.

i want to talk in closing about the bullet involved, the very accurate 130 grain sierra match king (bthp, or, more accurately, "otm.")

 "otm" stands for "open tip meplat."

the "meplat" is the tip of the bullet.  (no, i don't know what they just don't call it a tip?  a mystery to me.)  if you will look closely at the tip of an unaltered sierra bullet, (such as in a dummy round), you will see a little hole, a "pin" hole: this little hole goes down for a while into the bullet, and then widens as it approaches that portion of the bullet that houses the lead in the bullet. (the bullet has a hollow cavity there.)  the tip is formed after the lead goes in, and then the bullet is run through very precise dies to close the tip up tighter than a ticks rear end vent, except for the little hole.  the tip is very very stout, and very strong, and you aren't gonna deform it unless you hit something very very hard.  it is not meant to expand.

well, what's the point of this whole discussion.

look at the dummy rounds.  people will criticize this round because the neck is too short and the bullet seated too deeply to hold the bullet securely in all the rough and tumble of field use, and before firing.

look at the bullet lying on it's side.  it is 1.040" long, and look at the robust & thick gilding material walls, forming the outside of the bullet.  the longer 130 grain bullets are 1.154" long.  the abbreviated bullet has had .114" of length removed from it by the dremel, about a tenth and 1/6th more of a tenth.

now, this will sound a little confusing, but, it is stated with absolute clarity.

if i need to ever add a little more neck to this cartridge and bullet combination, (which i doubt), to grip the bullet more securely, i shall simply file 0.0150" or 0.0200" off the tip of the sierra bullet, which will do it absolutely no harm.  and, then i will have all the neck i need in the world.  it is an insurance policy, that file.

caption:  nothing could illustrate my points more clearly than these two sectioned cases.  the case on the right is a bullet seated to 2.260" overall cartridge length.  the case on the left has a bullet that has been "abbreviated" somewhat, and then moved forward to achieve that same 2.260" overall cartridge length.  every bit of the case neck grips the bullet at its fullest circumference, ensuring a good grip, and the cartridges effect chamber/powder capacity has been increased rather markedly.  my arguments cannot be shown any more clearly, at least, in my estimation.

 

do you understand?

by shortening the bullet that little bit, i will then be able to move it forward and still be with the cartridge overall length of 2.260", and the neck will have a more secure hold on the full .284" bullet shank diameter.

it is a small point, but one i wanted to make in addition to the rather obvious stages of cartridge case fabrication, while i was here and had your attention.

john jay @ 04.10.2012