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October 03, 2011


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john jay

p.s. to c.h. holte:

and, i will note that you stand behind your convictions with the use of your true name, and not some silly assed "c.b. handle," or other device to hide your identity.

that is to be respected.

Ben Fenton

Hey, John Joe Jimmy Jamie Jay Jack Jill. I read all of your whiny complaints about how everything is everyone else's fault. Now we witness another right wing crybaby get thrown under the bus. *bump.* laughing.


Ummmm, Jeb isn't governor of Florida any more.

john jay


re: jeb isn't guv any more

how about that.

john jay

Chris Holte

Words like "The Left" or "The Right" refer to movements not individuals; but the underlying concepts are what are important. And basic to that is honesty. Fact is there is nothing "Maoist" in Obama's speeches, and that is what i was referring to. The man is what would have been considered a Republican in the 1970's.

Fact is, "the left" is where the Republicans were during the Nixon administration as far as practical politicians are concerned.

Fact is that "government" is a function, and if we don't pay our elected officials to handle problems then someone else will step in to do that governance, and not in our interest. So your argument about what "government" will do is a bait and switch. Our choice is between letting rich and corporate bullyboys be the border, or finding a way to get control of our government and actually fix things. The only difference I see between left and right now is that the right doesn't seem interested in even trying to fix things.

It's not "The Left" that has to manage individual problems, it is our nation. And degrading "the left" for not being able to solve problems while blocking every effort is just treating national survival as a team sport.

What we need is something we used to call pragmatism. - it's the notion that human beings can solve any problem they can identify and analyze.

The idea that people can't solve problems is one that is anti-democratic, and while deeply conservative is also very much against the founding principles of this country. This attitude is what is sinking the country along with the idea that fighting over who controls the engine room is more important than avoiding the icebergs. One thing is sure, a person who lies about reality is a person who is putting on blinders and then going out for a stroll along a cliffside; or in this case stearing the Titanic.

john jay

chris holte:

obama would have been considered a republican in the 1970's?

have you been into the cooking sherry again?

just for you, after i finished my last bite of french toast, i went back to review the post to see if it had anything to do w/ an analysis of "left" or "right." it did not.

so, i guess your comment is not so much in reply to my original post or any update, but just a general observation of "things the way she is" in general.

good metaphors.

i am not so sure what in the hell they mean, in any concrete sense, but, good metaphors.

as i read your screed, (and, as i comprehend it, which may be two different things), you seem interested in doing pragmatic things to right the course of the country, and you think that a focus on partisanship is not the right way to do that, to the extent it takes the eye off the prize. (a metaphor of mine, which doesn't mean anything, in particular.) which is to steer a proper course.

not sure i disagree.

not sure i agree with your point that there is no distinction to be drawn between the left and the right.

well, actually, i disagree strongly with that proposition.

you are spot on when you say the right, e.g., republicans are as thorough going a bunch of statists as the democrats, e.g., radical left wing socialists & collectivists.

it would appear to me that about the best you can say of the g.o.p. is that it is comprised of a bunch of do-nothings who are content to collect the minority share of the spoils of governance.

generally, they are ass holes and boobs just as the democrats.

but, the leftist are the shits that are more or less in charge at all levels of society and governance, and "independent" institutions such as the media and academia.

so, i reserve the right to direct my criticism at them, because, in fact, (ooohie, doesn't it just make your leg tingle, as in the same sense it would make chris matthews' leg tingle?), they are more or less responsible for the mess we are in, and the silly bastards have worked assiduously for 50 years to get us here.

so, while an occasional spot at the firing squad should be rewarded to a prominent republican from time to time, in the main, little or no error can be committed by focusing on obliterating the left.

those who call themselves republicans now will simply be willing to fall into line in the new "system," and will be content to collect their minority share of the spoil.

in short, my original remarks and "updates" stand without correction.

i am right. you miss the point. though, i will give you, you make several of your own.

john jay

p.s. man, you must have a very busy calendar. you are about 6 months working up to this.

what, you are convinced that odds are i am not truly deranged, and, hence that you have no legitimate fear of reprisal, or what?

Christopher H. Holte

Firt Mr. Jay, your statement that Obama is a Marxist is counterfactual. In short it is a lie. Thanks for not insulting my intelligence by calling me names, but you never refuted my comments, just doubled down on the false allegations.

You have no evidence to back that statement, or any of your other defammatory statements; just a load of people who have the same group think opinion.

All the true believers I meet nowadays, who think they have an all explaining ideology -- are mostly far righties.

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