friends,
pamela geller is being taken to task for a post at a.shrugs, http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/06/tommy-robinson-any-rogue-elements-within-the-edl-that-go-against-our-mission-statement-will-be-remov.html#comment-6a00d8341c60bf53ef0154336288c2970c , which post consists almost entirely of a letter from tommy robinson of the english defense league, explaining that concerns she has voiced about edl are: 1.)acknowledged, and 2.) being addressed.
go to the link above, read the post, and then form your own opinions as to whether my characterization of the post is correct.
update: more, here, http://wintersoldier2008.typepad.com/summer_patriot_winter_sol/2011/07/my-final-comments-on-gates-of-vienna-as-arbitrator-of-the-content-of-the-counter-jihad-in-europe-.html . this is it. i have concluded on the subject. end update: 07.02.2011.
for having the temerity to post this note, and a preceding article, she is being excoriated by a group headed up by "gates of vienna" blogger, who styles himself baron bodissey. whatever a baron bodissey is. sounds like it ranks higher than "colonel." at any rate, here is the link to the article, http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/06/open-letter-to-pamela-geller.html . i tried to post a comment at "gates of vienna," and was shunted off somewhere into the ether.
i am going to print below my comments at atlas shrugs, plus some additional observations made to another person in private correspondence. i think the baron and his cohorts way off base, and they accuse ms. geller of misstating the situation, even in the face of robinson's letter to her which confirms her observations. go figure.
the comments at atlas shrugs.--
pamela, friends:
this goes back a ways, this business of trying to establish a bridge between american conservatives and the euro nationalist movements.
pamela geller, robert spencer, bat ye'or and others were in the forefront of this, when some of her critics were still suckling at their mama's titties, so to speak.
for her efforts, she received the blanket condemnation of one charles johnson, who you may remember was of some influence in the early days of the blogosphere before slipping into a well deserved obscurity taking boring photographs.
at one time, johnson enforced a rigid orthodoxy on such matters. and, the orthodoxy he tried to enforce on pamela geller was that all euro nationalists were neo-fascist and anti-semitic, by definition. pamela geller called "bullshit," and said it had to be determined on a case by case basis, and for those persons and groups that passed muster, passed the "sniff test" mentioned above, it only made good sense to join forces with them in the fight against the jihad.
well, she went "mano-o-mano" with johnson on this, and when she got done with johnson he looked like willie mccoy in croche's junk yard dog song, ... , tattered.
the point is, she has been constant.--
she has insisted on contact with the euro nationalists, and promoted them, when they have proven that they are not neo-fascist or anti-semitic. witness geert wilders, a great success for her.
she has not touched others, because they did not meet muster.
now, charles johnson [....] dictated neither her decision making process, nor her decisions in this. and, her critics with her posts on the e.d.l. will have no more influence with her thinking and decision making, no matter how much they jump up and down, and holler.
and, in the end, her decision making will prove sound. she will watch e.d.l., and if they run true to course of their stated goals, and neither anti-semitic nor neo-fascists elements hold sway, she will continue to support them. if they are compromised by the bnp, for instance, they will not be supported.
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa
p.s. will someone please explain the difference between anti-semitic and neo-fascist to me? seems like in today's politics, one is simply the other. i would welcome having my thinking in the matter straightened out.
correction:
oops. did not go back to catch the "did not" in the charles johnson sentence.
it should read:
"now, charles johnson dictated niether her decision making process, nor her decisions in this."
jjjay
It had to be said Pamela, it couldn't carry on the way it was.
Ironic that this witchhunt to oust Roberta et al, has in fact slightly backfired insomuch that it has helped to expose an untreated festering ulcer within the movement.
I want the EDL to grow and prosper into soomething good, a place for all people, from all walks of life. Not something which is a lighter version of the BNP or Stormfront, or one of many of their derivative splinter groups. It should be a welcoming movement for all people, that includes all classes, all religions, all colours.
It needs to be overseered by unbiased people, people without a divisive and hidden agenda. It can not be allowed to function without care or it will slip into the wrong hands to then turn into something it never set out to be.
It is shocking and sad that certain individuals have set-up an open letter against you. You, a brave woman, who on a daily basis faces so many threats because of your brave staunch fight against 'our' shared and deathly enemy, which threatens so many countries across the globe.
If these people did care about the EDL and are in agreement with EDL's Mission Statement, then why are they taking this stance against you? Why would they be against a divisive infiltration of the EDL being highlighted and made public. Surely, by their reaction they are denying the existence of a dubious core element which are attempting to hijack the EDL, therefore, it leaves a bigger question unanswered, and being so, leaves people to assume the worse.
I am just an ordinary person, with a family and extended family. My family for generations, just like many others, fought and lost their lives to keep this country safe and free - I want my country to be a safe and a good place for my family to live in, especially when I won't be here to help and protect them. I have no hidden agenda.
I wholeheartedly support my country the UK (I worry deeply about our future); I wholeheartedly support our brave and wonderful troops (like so many others, I too have family putting their lives on the line in foreign lands); I care and support Christians/Israel/Jews/Gays/Hindus/Sikhs (far too many to list) - these are all under threat. They will always have my undaunting support. I am just a very concerned and ordinary individual but one who knows that the EDL can be a good movement, kept safe in the right hands, never steering away from its original Mission Statement.
fern:
hear ye!! hear ye meaning!!
incredibly well said, and temperate to a degree i find amazing. g_d bless you, and give you the resolve to keep fighting, and to keep the e.d.l. true to its course.
g_d preserve the english.
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa
pamela:
bravo!!
your attempts to forge a working alliance with the euro & english nationalist groups goes back a long way, and indeed you have been excoriated by the left (in which i include charles johnson) for it, the left issuing blanket condemnations of such groups as antisemitic and fascist.
you said bullshit!! to such a bias, and have determined from the very first to work with groups that were: 1.)interested in carrying on the anti-jihad, 2.)supporters of israel, and 3.)tolerated no anti-semites or fascists in their ranks. this was your policy from the get go, and you also refused to let others define who was what, or to tell you what your thinking on a particular group should be.
geert wilders and his party passed the test. phillipe de winter did not quite make it, because his party did not weed out the objectionable elements. the bnp was summarily shunned, because of their blatant (and very british) anti-semitic & anti-israeli posture.
and, the e.d.l. met your criteria, so you recognized, promoted and have attempted to work with them.
the point is, each of your decisions has been made case by case, and on your criteria, and by your decision making process alone. and, more to the point, you have not let ned may and "dymphna" at "gates of vienna" dictate to you how all of this would go. in my opinion, this is the source of the animus toward you from "gates of vienna" and their various allies.
people have short memories, in general. i do not.
i remember not too many years ago when ned and "gates of vienna" came under attack from charles johnson and his lizard legions. you alone in the blogs defended him, and you took on charles johnson on this issue of european nationalists all by yourself, as others quailed on the sidelines. it is my opinion that ned may and "gates of vienna" would not be in business now, were it not for your singular efforts.
and, this is how you are repaid.
as to this post, i again say, bravo!! give 'em hell, pamela, for hell is what they deserve. what particularly galls me about all this, is that tommy robinson's letter to you acknowledges your concerns, admits them, and states that the e.d.l. is going to purge itself of the anti-semitic/neo-fascist crowd ... while ned and his cronies condemn you for raising that very point. what they have done is to condemn you for telling the truth.
they say you divide the anti-jihad. is it their point that the anti-jihad can only remain united by suppressing the truth of matters, and by muzzling its "members" from telling the truth in order to maintain unity? well, let us address that issue. whose "unity" are they striving to maintain, or put more bluntly, just who in the hell asserts "a party line" must be maintained in the anti-jihad, and just who in the hell asserts the prerogative to determine and discipline such a "party line?" well, i raise a rhetorical point, don't i, because the answer is obviously, ned may at "gates of vienna," the erstwhile "baron bodissey." just what the hell is a "bodissey," anyway? and, where does ned may get off in insisting on being able to determine the party line? to be the next charles johnson?
he can take a flying leap as far as i am concerned.
so, bravo!! keep it up. i have your "6" covered, and would charge the gates of hell to protect it, ... , or, even the "gates of vienna."
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa
p.s. and, may i add, that the "gates of vienna" is a decidedly less intimidating objective than the conquest of hell. even given their overly inflated notion of their "formidable" status. ... . to which i remind them, again, that they would not be here, were it not for your defense of them from the predatory transgressions of charles johnson.
and, friends, i watched it happen from up close, and i know whereof i speak. anyone wishes to correct me, they may undertake the task.
pamela, friends:
out my way, n.e. oregon, usa, we say that opinions are just like nipples, everybody's got 'em. at least two.
but, pamela seems to be criticized for two things, 1.)not getting her facts straight, and 2.)causing a split in the counter-jihad movement.
as to no. 1, when i read tommy robinson's statement, he confirms that a certain segment in the edl have expressed anti-semitic statements, and pledges that segment shall be purged. he also recognizes that others may try to "... jump on the bandwagon ..." as well, and says there is no room for neo-fascism in the e.d.l.
pamela geller has spoken truth, and tommy robinson confirms this, and pledges that e.d.l. will do better. that seems evident enough to me.
as to no. 2, how does one cause a schism in the anti-jihad by speaking truth, and by insisting that the anti-jihad/nationalist movements remain free of any taint of anti-semiticism? now, let's go back in time a little bit. i will remind you that pamela geller's position in all of this remains unchanged over time. she was an early supporter of geert wilders, and got him his initial exposure in the united states: she endorsed him, but refused to endorse others because their positions on keeping their organizations free of anti-semitic and neo-fascist sentiments did not pass the "smell test" with her.
geert wilders passed. some others, in france and elsewhere, did not pass the sniff test, and no associations were formed with them.
she has always insisted that this initial litmus be passed, and she has turned down engagements with groups who were suspect.
this i know as fact. as personal knowledge, not opinion.
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa