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June 26, 2010

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GM Roper

Too much. I suggest we threaten Medina with a bombing campaign unless they relent and back off.

JewishOdysseus

John, this lovely essay proves one thing, if nothing else: You are a good muslim!

A muslim

If you feel like following islam why not try and follow this verse of the quran:

Chapter 5 verse 32:

If anyone kills a single innocent human being it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity but if anyone saves anyone's life it is as though he has saved the life of whole humanity.

Islam unequivocally condemns killing any innocent human being (whether muslim or christian or jew, --no matter what faith).

And according to islam every muslim should try to save human lives, save!!

If you really like to know about Islam try to read the Quran or the teachings of prophet which are the only authentic sources of Islam!! I repeat THE ONLY!!!

Who told you to go and read some fatwa by some person or some so called scholar.

For your information, if you kill a single innocent human being in the name of self defense, far from being closer to islamic identity you won't even be considered a human according to the teachings of Islam.

john jay

a muslim:

two words for you.--

1.)abrogation
2.)debate

abrogation. the early, flowery verses of the koran are abrogated by later verses, which most assuredly authorize muslims to kill infidels.

infidels are hardly "innocents" under islamic, sharia, are they?

i will open this forum to you to debate on koranic text, say, with someone like robert spencer of jihad watch, who is an islamic scholar and reads the texts of the koran in arabic.

you want to give it a go?

and, finally, on "authentic" and "authorative" sources on islam.

you dissemble. hint: that is a fancy word for misinform or misdirect.

now, muslims have been killing humanity, in the form of religious conflict strictly between muslims, since the death of mohammed over who gets to be the authoritative source on the koran, and they call the arguing factions sunni and shia, in the main, the two major factions.

(so much for islam/muslims not killing. they kill each other more than they kill anyone else!!)

innocents included?

and, dear friend "a muslim," would you care to explain to the rest of those who read these pages, what an "innocent human being" is, according to muslim scripture.

let's flush you out right now, and see if you can be candid, and straight forward with the truth.

come on, now, a muslim, tell us what an "innocent" is? is it a muslim child who is wheeled in his baby stroller by an iraqi police recruiting center blown to bits by an islamic terrorist bomb?

is it an infidel child riding a train in spain blown to bits by an islamic bomb?

you opened the argument.

come on back for a little more, and let us examine some of the things you say.

john jay

p.s. i note that you do not say one thing to refute either:

1.)the words of the scholar sayyed muhammad hussein fadlallah, or his interpretation of islam as set forth in his fatawa, or
2.)my characterization of them.

nor do you say that the teachings of islam shall not give guidance in such matters to an infidel to me.

instead, you engage only in misdirection & misformation about an abrogated verse in the koran.

in other words, you lie.

explain to my readers, dear "a muslim," about when a muslim is authorized to lie about islam in order to confuse infidels of its true purpose.

this comment section is open to you.

come on back. any time. we'll keep the porch light on for you.

john jay

a muslim:

i would be very happy to have you respond to these observations as well, mr. "islam is a religion of peace," with relation that islam does not kill innocents.

first, & again, define who is an "innocent" in the eyes of islam. is a jew an innocent? a catholic? a sunni to a shia, a shia to a sunni?

and, then there is this issue which all who blather "islam is a religion of peace" avoiding facing, imho.

that is, all major jihadist terror acts receive religious approval from clerics before occurring.

is that not right?

that is, "suicide bombers" do not think they are committing "suicide" or illegally or irreligiously taking their own lives in violation against islamic proscriptions toward doing the same, do they, because they are educated by authentic and authoritative islamic clerics that they are not doing so.

is that not right?

and, finally, i am unaware of any major ayatollah or imam or head of any of the major islamic teaching universities or mosques condemning on an institutional or religious basis islamic jihad as carried out against israel, the united states, europe and the rest of the world, such as directed against hindu's in india, or buddhists in thailand, ... , are you?

are you interested in commenting on what that means, that islam does not condemn terror killings and jihadist killings, such as the world trade centers or the mumbai massacres?

is this not right?

so, mr. "a. muslim," would you care to address these issues.

john jay

john jay

a muslim:

finally, will you refute the teaching of sayyed muhammed hussein fadlallah as being contrary to islam and the word of allah.

or, will you acknowledge the teaching of sayyed muhammed hussein fadlallah as being true to islam and the word of alleh?

are fadlallah's teachings the position of islam?

john jay

eib

Quote:
Chapter 5 verse 32:

If anyone kills a single innocent human being it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity but if anyone saves anyone's life it is as though he has saved the life of whole humanity.
end.

Not quite.

Too bad verse 33 has to follow 32.

Quote:
32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
end quote.

The decree of life was never given to Muslims and certainly not to Arabs.
It was given only "to the Children of Israel."
Which Muslims CERTAINLY ARE NOT.

john jay

eib:

thank you very much for your very thoughtful and concise exegesis of these passages.

islam provides and means no comfort to those who are not muslim.

and, oddly enough, islam provides and means no comfort to those who are muslim.

islam kills non-believers, without compunction. and, if they have no infidels to kill, they kill each other, squabbling over the meaning of the koran and big mo's life. and, who is to interpret all that.

they just kill, incessantly. seems to be the case, wherever they are.

john jay

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