someone has it. i want to see it. the killer will be in the front row, kneeling, in the center.
he will be grinning. proudly. he shot finicum on the ground, w/ the kill shot.
john jay @ 03.10.2016
someone has it. i want to see it. the killer will be in the front row, kneeling, in the center.
he will be grinning. proudly. he shot finicum on the ground, w/ the kill shot.
john jay @ 03.10.2016
the big f.i.b. ("federal investigation bureau") acknowledges 8 or 9 rounds being fired at the finicum vehicle and lavoy finicum, three of which hit him, (the killing shot while he lay on the ground.)
what does this mean? (well, for one thing, they are shitty shots.)
and, it means something else.--
it means that some shooters may not have had a line of sight on their intended target. and, it also means that 2 or 3 of the kill team may have suffered from a respect for the law governing the use of lethal force, and did not think that the grounds existed to shoot and kill finicum. in short, the law inhibited their inclination to kill. what a novel thought.
and, it means the rest of them would have shot their mothers if the chance presented itself where they could fabricate some bullshit "alibi" in justification. (this happens when your blood is up, and you have your orders.) this, we know, and this we knew before it happened. (my "favorite" "police" shooting took place in new york city, when 8 or 9 officers confronted an unarmed man in a doorway/entrance to a building. they pulled their guns. they issued commands. he did not speak english, and did not know how to grovel & beg. my recollection is that his body was found with about 40 wounds in it, and the officers shot another 40 rounds or so that missed. from a distance of 10 or 15 feet. they just go fucking nuts when the first shot is fired, and reload, and fire some more. by the time the new york cops finished w/ this guy, there weren't even tatters of him left to aim at.)
if the truth is ever to be known about why the f.i.b. shot finicum, and who directed it, that truth will be found from the officers and agents who did not gratuitously put a round into finicum. it will not be found from the agent or officer who put the kill shot into finicum as he lay wounded on the ground.
finicum was shot in the heart as he lay wounded on the ground. you look at the chart showing the entrance wounds to his back, and you figure out the route the bullet had to take to get to his heart. he was first wounded.
and, then, he was executed.
by a very big brave bold warrior. a chickenshit very big brave bold warrior. a very chickenshit very big brave bold warrior. wearing an armor plated bullet proof vest, combat helmet, combat gloves and shin guards and steel reinforced toe boots. hiding behind a car. and, hiding behind 8 or 9 others similarly acutered very big brave bold warriors who had the drop on finicum. dressed in warrior black.
as finicum lay on the ground. arms sprawled, over his head, in final surrender. reaching in supplication.
john jay @ 03.10.2016
lavoy finicum probably intended to suffer martyrdom. he certainly had opportunity to surrender to arrest.
until the precise point at which the oregon state police and the f.i.b. opened fire upon him, illegally and without legal justification for the use of lethal force to effect his arrest. until that point, finicum had done no more than shoot his mouth off, and to commit the criminal acts of eluding and resisting arrest: neither of which offense provide the predicate for shooting & killing him.
the prosecutors in oregon who have said the shooting was justified display a remarkable ignorance of the law: they are not fit to hold office.
when the feds and the state police shot at the cab of finicum's pickup he had every "reasonable man" right to conclude that the police meant to kill him without justification, and every reasonable right under the law to defend himself with the same lethal force as had been leveled & directed upon him.
i believe he did not do so to spare the lives of his companions. he knew that to return fire, if he had been able to, would have resulted in the indiscriminate massacre of the people in the pickup, ... , the police viewing such shooting as "proper" & "righteous."
he displayed remarkable restraint, knowing that he was to be killed. yes, he dropped his arms, even perhaps reaching for a pistol. but, at that point, it made no difference, the police had determined to kill him, and the "reach for the pistol" was but a pretext for shooting. they had already "opened fire," perhaps firing as many as five or six rounds at finicum and the pickup before he was shot dead, surrounded by 8 or 9 officers armed with automatic weapons.
the police shot first. and, they were the only participants in this execution to fire any rounds. or, to openly display weapons.
did finicum "reach" for his pistol? it makes no difference to me, whether he did or not. because, he would have been legally justified in doing so, in an attempt to defend his life, under a reasonable apprehension that the police meant to shoot & kill him. i believe he did not, to protect his friends from slaughter.
it is clear that finicum had a very sophisticated understanding of the law governing this situation. he pushed it as far as he could, goading the officers to shoot and kill him, knowing full well that they had no legal authority to do so, given his conduct to that point. his fellows are charged w/ "interference" with governmental operations for the occupation of an abandoned piece of property at the malheur game refuge: finicum could have been charged with no more stemming from that occupation, and could have been charged with nothing more than eluding and resisting arrest for his conduct immediately before his killing.
and, again, refusing to obey an officer is not sufficient ground to using lethal force and shooting a suspect to arrest & apprehend him.
i believe the officers involved in killing finicum should be prosecuted criminally, and sued in civil court for damages for illegally taking his life. this will happen, as the cops did the bidding of their masters, and having served their masters, will be sacrificed as all pawns .... en passant. there is no more need for them, so they shall go.
again, when the officers opened fire, and shot into the cab of the pickup, they lost all pretext for the illegal shooting of finicum. after that, all is lies, and all who excuse the shooting, are liars.
john jay @ 03.09.2016
i have never been so ashamed.
i live in a banana republic, where law enforcement thinks it can shoot and kill with impunity, and that it can lie about it otherwise.
in the portland oregonian. "fbi agents under investigation for possible misconduct in lavoy finicum shooting," by les saitz, portland oregonian, 03.08.2016, http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_agents_und.html .
i suggest that you go to the article, and read it, and watch the several videos appended to it. you will find that the oregon state patrol and the federal bureau of investigation officers opened fire on the vehicle driven by finicum before he exited it. with real live honest to goodness bullets.
they fired on the vehicle multiple times.
finicum was struck from behind several times in the upper left shoulder, and once in the lower right side. three times in the back. that's where the bullets struck him.
the oregonian article reports that the autopsy showed a bullet pierced his heart, and that is what killed him. if so, that means he was struck either as he was falling, or as he lay on the ground, wounded. with his arms over his head, and no gun in his hand.
as argued in previous posts on this subject, finicum never had a gun in his hands, and never brandished and displayed one towards officers. he is to be admired for his restraint in death, as in my view, he certainly was justified if he had tried to protect himself from an illegal execution.
in my view, the officers involved were cowards when they shot him, and they were cowards when they lied about the circumstances of his death afterwards. forensics has concluded that a number of the bullets fired at finicum during this incident came from f.b.i. weapons, yet none of this chickenshit worms will admit to firing the rounds. it will serve them not, as forensics will identify the rounds, and the guns from which they came, (unless, of course, the officers have acted in concert to obscure that.)
this is what i wrote to the oregonian about this:
with all due respect, the statements of public officers "justifying" this shooting are bullshit. pure, and simple bullshit. you might be allowed to give them some credence had there been no shots fired by the police before finicum allegedly reached for a gun. (which gun he never got to hand, btw. he never displayed nor brandished a firearm at any cop, state or federal.)
there were, however, shots fired at finicum's vehicle as he approached the roadblock. (the roadblock was illegal, and not justified under the law. for obvious reasons, such a roadblock is called a "deadman's" roadblock, and is not justified unless a suspect is fleeing a major felony. look it up, if you have the native wit.) shots were fired by the oregon state police.
shots were fired by the f.b.i., which the agents have tried to cover up, as finicum exited the vehicle. i believe that finicum was assaulted illegally with deadly force before he was shot and killed. he is to be forgiven if he attempted to protect himself after being fired upon repeatedly, without legal provocation. because a person does not go to the ground when ordered is not legal justification for police to shoot and kill him.
if he did reach for a gun, he might be forgiven for doing so, because he had ample reason to believe that the cops were going to kill him, no matter what. we call that self defense in my neighborhood.
he was shot three times. the coroner's report said a bullet went through his heart. if so, that bullet was fired while he was disabled upon the ground, as a person's heart is not located in the upper left shoulder nor in the right lower back, as the wounds are depicted in the coroner's report (or the oregonian's depiction of the same.)
finicum was ambushed, illegally. he was shot and killed, illegally. the oregon state police and the f.i.b. should be prosecuted for the illegal shooting, and obstruction of justice. as should the governor of the state of oregon, the head of the oregon state patrol, and the director of the f.i.b.
not only are the f.i.b. thugs, but, now it seems, they are confirmed as liars. one lies, btw, when one has guilty knowledge.
milton freewater, oregon
these were not the acts of trained police officers, unless of course they just murdered finicum by outright agreement among themselves. these were the actions of officers acting illegally, and without sufficient restraint to apprehend legally. in essence, they shot finicum for refusing to go to the ground, after he had already been fired upon illegally. his acts were not sufficient to justify being shot and killed as he lay upon the ground, wounded and defenseless. (a bullet does not get to your heart when you are standing, and you are shot in the upper left shoulder above the shoulder blade. a bullet gets to your heart, when it travels parallel to the ground through your body to your heart.)
finicum was executed.
i think he was murdered. i think his shooting a criminal act by 8 or 9 state police and f.i.b. agents. i hope they are prosecuted.
i firmly believe, it is my considered legal opinion, that his shooting was not justified under the laws governing the use of legal force to apprehend a suspect. i think all the assholes involved in his shooting are liable for his death, in damages, under the civil law. i hope and pray that his family retains a good lawyer.
john jay @ 03.08.2016
p.s. watch this video. it shows the f.i.b. video previously viewed herein, syched with a phone video from inside the finicum vehicle. it is very revealing.
it proves that idiots given guns are idiots, even if they were a state uniform. and, that they are fully capable of killing without justification. being "irked" gives no police officer justification to shoot and kill a defenseless person. (finicum's pistol is a red herring. it was never wielded illegally by him.)
the minions of the state and federal government did the bidding of their masters. and, now, they will get what's coming to them by surrendering their moral values and principles, by being the scapegoats of their masters, who will prosecute them. they deserve no less.
and, their masters? they deserve what the minions will suffer. it will never happen. the state of oregon is now officially a banana republic, where the "leaders" murder those who dare oppose them.
last year my goal was to work my way up to 800 yards w/ a degree of competency involved in the shooting, but, the weather and circumstances conspired against me. well, maybe not "conspired," but things just didn't work out.
two days ago my shooting mentor called and said, let's go shoot at 1,000 yards. you betcha, i said.
as the ground laid out, we didn't quite have the ground to shoot at 1,000 yards, but the topography gave us a very workable target distance of 935 yards, fixed by gps. (and, confirmed by the ballistic programs and the actual shooting.)
neither of us shot very well, lying in a mound of dirt with a bad slope, and the target was difficult. it was a matter of "aim close" in order to experience "missing close." but, we learned a lot.
one, we found out that relaxing just before the shot to get a good trigger pull resulted in the lay of the ground "rolling us out" of a good shooting posture, and making it almost impossible to hold the target. a lot of near misses.
two, that at shorter distance you can make some errors in fundamental technique and get away with it, but, that at 935 yards there is very little margin for error. you cannot mess up on your trigger pull, you cannot afford not to have good form and follow through on the trigger pull, and you cannot muscle the rifle into a proper shooting position.
in short, you have to follow the basics that you know, without fail. you don't do things right, you don't hit the target on purpose, or where you aim.
and, three, even if you struggle a little bit, it is all tremendous fun. we spent the whole day on private ground, without interference, out in the country rolling around in the "buffalo chips" and watching the weather roll in and roll out as we shot.l
i found out that there is nothing magical in the difference between shooting at 300 or 600 or 900 yards. you calculate the shooting solution for the range, you set up, and you try to aim true. it is just that it is exponentially harder to hit the target at 900 yards than at 600.
you must know the exact distance. you must know the exact velocity of the bullet, as near as possible. (yes, i know that the statement is not entirely logical, but, it is true, and an imperative. in short, that means you don't always hit the target. simple as that. and, if you have troubles, you don't hit it. period. as noted, you come close. but, a miss is a miss.) and, you must do things as correctly as possible, or substantial error is induced.
fun day. we'll do it again. we'll get better, and we'll communicate better and more clearly. long range shooting is team work.
john jay @ 02.25.2016
p.s. see below. apparently i have shot at 888 yards before. i'd forgotten all about it. read the post, see if my views have changed all that much.
(back from reading the "update" post linked below. i must say, the pictures in the post are the prettiest i've ever published. and, it shows what an absolutely gorgeous area i live in. hint: it is not flat. it is "tough ground," and very pretty. all year long.
during the entire episode at burn, oregon which led to the shooting death of lavoy finicum not a single protester/occupier assaulted any federal officer, nor did so much as point a gun at him or threaten him. the closest anyone came to doing so was probably finicum himself, who said he would not be taken alive.
the proof of this assertion? well, now the feds are starting to round up protesters from burns, and previous protesters who were involved in the clive bundy confrontation well over a year ago. they do this, now that they have killed the heart and soul of the protest in the person of lavoy finicum. now, for all of this "terrorist" activity carried on by the cowboys and ranchers who have made up the movement, have they been charged w/ assault w/ deadly weapons, or anything like that? nope, they have been charged with a rather vague and incredibly chickenshit charge of interfering with federal operations. (i haven't specified the charge, as it is so nebulous and vague as to be largely incomprehensible in the real world. not to the feds of course, they are a far more enlightened species than i.)
now, presumably, at the time and date of his shooting death lavoy finicum had done nothing more dangerous that committing the same charge with all of his fellows. (this to the full of bullshit forum experts who have opined that finicum deserved shooting because he was a dangerous felon. no, he was not, not by any stretch of the imagination.)
so, understand this, if you are the right species of dissenter you can get yourself shot dead in these united states for interfering with federal operations. the federals are scared shitless to release finicums autopsy, afraid to admit how many bullets interfering w/ federal operations can get you, ... , and, with good reason. the only thing i can conclude is that they are afraid of the firestorm it will cause when they make the information public.
but, consider that for a moment. and, consider this.-- finicum neither struck, or pushed or even touched another person in a criminal way that i am aware of. if i am wrong, please so inform me. he threatened no one. he displayed or brandished a gun towards no one. he shot no one. he robbed no bank, held up no liquor store, raped no woman nor did he kill anyone.
the "law enforcement types" who effected his "arrest" by shooting him dead knew all of this. if he had done anything like that, it would have justified his arrest earlier. it did not. either that, or they are gutless and cannot perform routine law enforcement duties, being reduced to gunning people down in their stead. one man, one riot apparently depended on a better model of "one man" than we have available now.
(i enumerate this sorts of things, because these are the sorts of things that justify a "dead man" road block. a person has to be a person fleeing from this kind of felony charge or event to justify the use of a "dead man" road block to apprehend him. again, this is for the full of bullshit experts who blather on the internet forums saying that finicum "deserved" to be shot.)
lavoy finicum, to put it bluntly, got killed for being a pain in the butt.
now, consider this. http://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/d-c-crime-bill-to-pay-people-to-avoid-committing-crimes/ . in washington d.c. and in several other municipalities in the united states of america (and i use the term loosely, as we are no longer "united" and we are no longer legitimate states, but banana republics that exterminate dissenters) the governing bodies are considering paying known & previously convicted criminals not to commit crimes any longer. the stipends in washington d.c. are substantial, up to $9,000 not to boost liquor stores any more. let me see, the persons in washington d.c. likely effected are on welfare, food stamps, rent assistance, w.i.c. and good knows what other types of public assistance, and that is not enough. now, they are going to be paid not to commit crime. does anyone want to make a bet, that they will be "moon lighting" even while taking the money, or am i just too cynical?
washington d.c. and several enlightened communities in california (anyone want to make a bet that they are all pretty much spelled "los angeles") are going to pay convicted thugs, persons who will no doubt have to demonstrate that they are indeed of the criminal class, not to commit crime.
lavoy finicum was a pillar of his church. he ranched and farmed. he raised foster children, in addition to the 11 children of his own that he raised. he was respected, and a voice of a people who feel themselves aggrieved by the rapacious land acquisition policies of the federal bureaucracy.
and, for these activities, he did not get paid not to commit crime.
instead, he got gunned down at point blank range by "law enforcement," with no gun ever displayed or in his hands. and, to the best of my knowledge, never charged nor convicted of any criminal offense by either the feds or any state government.
one man, one riot, indeed. i guess they had men for cops, in those days.
john jay @ 02.14.2016
p.s. imagine the scene is washington d.c., a government building with white and black tiles, and long lines waiting in front of the counter. at the counter, a man approaches, and spreads out some papers. "this is my rap sheet, ma'am, three armed robberies, 7 burglaries, 3 while armed, and 6 assaults, one w/ a deadly weapon. a couple three dui's, and some marijuana and meth convictions." the clerk, who has seen a lot of this in the last couple days and who seems terribly unimpressed, says, "well, i guess you qualify for the maximum, but, then again, so does everybody else i've seen in the last week or so since we opened. is this all anyone in this town does, is boost people and beat them up." "oh, yes, ma'am says the applicant, i myself have been the victim of 6 home invasion robberies, of people trying to come in and rob my drug sales." and, adds the man, "i am hoping to qualify for the bonus, that says if i don't kill anyone in the next 30 years i am on the program, in or out, that i get a $50,000 bonus for being good." the cleark says, "well, we'll see about that. for that, you gotta get in another line, tomorrow morning. i'll give you a ticket." "what the hell," says the man, "i gotta do all that to get me some money." the woman looks over the tops of her glasses and says, "well, yessir, but, times are tough." and, then she adds, "you'll qualify. and, you don't have to wait 60 days like social security, you know, when you pay your employment taxes, you ever done that, you will get your money in about 3 days."
"next," she bellows, as the applicant hitches his pants above his butt crack, and ambles out the door.
the same day lavoy finicum's body is exhumed and his shooting reenacted. filmed, of course, from overhead by an oregon state patrol and fbi operated drone, so that everyone can see how a solid citizen gets treated in today's west.
has it occurred to any of you that the filming of lavoy finicum's shooting death was passing odd? what, do you think the oregon state patrol was flying an airplane along highway 395 out of burns, oregon filming traffic?
nope, the plane and camera were there to record finicum's apprehension. and, to my mind, his expected shooting death. granted, finicum was not perfect. and, his proclivities were exploited: he was pushed to react a certain way. and, in my view of the world, his resultant death was anticipated and expected.***
you ever watch "hunters" who set up a provoked charge from a lion, so they can be filmed killing the hapless beast?
john jay @ 02.12.2016
*** the government has people who do this, set up these sorts of operations. this is how they make a "living."
as time goes along, as it is wont, it become abuntantly clearer why it was so important for the united states of america to kill robert "lavoy" finicum, any way it could.
finicum was clearly the spirit that animated the free range rebellion, as it has been styled. the government recognized this, and decided that finicum had to go: the reasoning being, that if you kill the spirit of a movement, you've killed the movement.
you may view the whole operation at burns, oregon as the domestic equivalent of killing osama bin laden. there really is not too much difference in the motivation of the government in either effort. both efforts.
what you say, osama bin laden was a terrorist, who killed many innocents as a wolf tears through a pack of sheep. and, further you say, finicum never hurt anyone, and was in many respects an admirable man. well, it seems, it makes no difference to an empire whether you are an evil malevolent irritant who kills without restraint in as grisly a way as possible, or whether you are simply a person who stands up for laudable principles.
an irritant to empire is an irritant, and it must go. and, so it has gone. and, so has robert "lavoy" finicum. the government expects to roll up the free range rebellion as you would roll up an old soiled carpet, and dispose of it.
the government didn't figure so well with osama bin laden, his kind seem yet to flourish. we'll see how the government's assessment of robert "lavoy" finicum's friends turns out. stay tuned.
john jay @ 02.12.2016
when i was a kid i remember people saying with utter confidence "that government is best which governs least." henry david thoreau. well, it was a quaint notion, to say the least. and, if anyone believed it who occupied a seat in government that person is as dead as the sentiment. belief, & person, ... , dead as dodo's.
how would we describe the prevailing sentiment of government today, by those who run it?
let me modestly propose, "that government is best which governs with the most grandiosely unobtainable objectives requiting the largest edifices to attain failure."
the western world watched in abject horror for 100 years as the soviet union & china killed millions in an effort to make the soviet and chinese "man," to make man into the ideal socialist being. and, watched in awe as socialism attempted to harness the inherent energy and creativity of man by making failed socialist economies one after the other.
having the benefit of that spectacle, western societies now attempt to duplicate it with "soft" socialism, instead of the threat of a bullet to the back of the head.
i watched a thing on pbs last night, "the world from outer space." lotsa lights. roads, ships and planes and heat and food for the masses. all powered by coal and oil. coal and oil account for about 60 or 70% of the world's power generation.
the chief political & economic aim of the world's leadership is the reduction of carbon emissions. it is a goal which is absolutely unobtainable given the realities of the world. the world's population is 7.5 billion people, likely to go up to 9.5 billion person in the next 35 years of so, if forecasters are correct. and, assuming no horrendous wars, no crop failures, and no mass pandemics which will alter the "progress of things."
coal and oil make synthetics, medicines, fertilizers, plastics, cloth and probably carbon fiber, for all i know. not to mention powering the thousands upon thousands of coal fired electrical generating plants the world over, and not to mention the millions upon millions of automobiles coursing our roads, and putting the jets that bulwark modern transportation, and the ships that ply the seas w/ international trade.
yet we have politicians who pander to the idiocy of the modern masses w/ promises of harnessing the ingenuity of the world's sciences in order to reduce our profligate use of coal and oil.
it is the posturing of idiocy in the face of implacable reality. all to keep the world's temperature from going up several degrees in the next twenty years.
yet, incredible wealth will be squandered attempting to do things which cannot be done.
and, every bit of it accompanied by insufferable rhetoric and posturing about the nobility of government attempting to do, well, my view is well established, the impossible.
and, i can guarantee you, dimes to vanilla creme crullers, that not once in the next 20 years will you see (an increasingly wrinkled) judy woodriff (of the pbs news hour) note that king knute once commanded the waves to stop, with equal grandiloquence, and equal lack of effect.
government has decided that it will not govern those things which it can attend to profitably, but that it will devote its labors to "hopeless change" which it can never hope to effect.
hey, "knutism," would be a good name for it.
how can i say this with any degree of confidence? well, i will note something that is a bit of an historical fact. human kind got itself into this mess pretty much while being "governed" by the same bunch of idiots who govern us now, and pretty much with every conceivable government agency and all of its little policy makers and planners attempting to avoid this pretty little mess. the fact is, government is pretty ineffectual at almost everything, witness the post office, that it undertakes, except making the ocassional war and making government grow. and, government will be equally ineffectual in its contemporary efforts at changing the world as it has been to shape the growth of the world to this point.
the fact is, the world races ahead towards, ... , what, doom, paradise, who the hell knows what, ... , with idiots at the steering wheel, the tie rods broken, ... , well, where it is going. and, where is that? you'll just have to find out.
but, it won't be where the idiots in washington d.c., or paris, or bonn or even in moscow tell you where it is going. because, while they preen and posture and pronounce, they haven't the slightest fucking idea what is going to happen. all they know, is that they will eat well while it happens.
so, we'll have global warming held in check by idiots mouthing platitudes, even while coal and oil production continue unabated, and while the world's atmosphere is inundated w/ carbon particles. (which, i might remind you, has gone on for millennial with the oceans rising and falling, and continents being covered with water and being laid bare to desert, and with weather patterns transforming the sahara from lake to deserts since the dawn of time. all without coal plants, all without climatologists, and all without coca cola commercials extolling "one world.")
and, in keeping with current enthusiasms, they are gonna make all of us like and admire each other.
they are going to make sex w/ dogs and chickens a natural "personal choice." they are gonna make bill cosby behave himself. and, they are gonna make religious differences disappear.
"stop the waves, i command you. for, i am knute, and i am puffed up beyond the point of ridiculousness, and i am damned important." that has become government. oh, yeah, don't forget the bullet to the back of the head, in a damp dark dank basement, if you have the temerity to disagree.
john jay @ 02.11.2016
use 'em, or loose 'em. that's the way I see it.
john jay @ 02.09.2016