from the internet ... joseph storey and james madison on the second amendment and the role of guns ...

joseph story served on the united states supreme court from 1811 to 1845, and wrote commentaries on the constitution of the united states, a seminal work on the jurisprudence of this country, and long recognized as authoritative.

said justice story with regard to the second amendment of the u.s. constitution:

"the importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. the militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. it is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."

taken from the following article by joe miller, a good read in its own right, http://joemiller.us/2013/02/a-letter-from-the-special-forces-community-concerning-the-second-amendment/?utm_source=JoeMiller.US+List&utm_campaign=6e4cc1337d-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email.

and, this from james madison, author of "the federalist papers" along with john jay and alexander hamilton:  madison became the 4th president of the united states, jay the first chief justice of the united states, and hamilton became the first secretary of the treasury in washington's administration.  the majesty of their writing, the roles they played in the creation of our country, and their subsequent service in  government lend a very definitive air to the views they expressed.

madison asserted a widely held opinion of his contemporaries when he wrote the following:

"if there be a principle that ought not to be questioned within the united states, it is, that every nation has a right to abolish an old government and establish a new one. this principle is not only recorded in every public archive, written in every american heart, and sealed with the blood of a host of american martyrs; but is the only lawful tenure by which the united states hold their existence as a nation." --james madison, helevidius, no. 3, 1793

having just promoted and fought in a revolution to throw off an oppressive british colonial rule, there can be little doubt that madison would have viewed firearms as a principle tool in effecting such change.  can his reference to the "blood of martyrs" mean anything else?

if you doubt this assertion, read madison in "the federalist papers."  his views on firearms are congruent to story's, and no doubt informed them.  i suspect you have not read "the federalist papers," few people read them much any more, which cogently explains in large part why this country is in the fix it is in.

we are but pretenders, to the founding fathers.

 

john jay @ 02.08.2012

Comments

[Grog]

It could also be argued that the Founding Fathers would label most elected officials as frauds, based on the last 100 years of "legislation" which has debased all that was accomplished to secure Liberty. I'd also suggest that the anti-Federalist papers are just as important for understanding the FF perspective as to placing limitations on government influence over Citizens. But practical thinking is passe now, most people would rather be told how to live, so they could go back to watching their favorite "reality" show.

[john jay]

grog:

in some sense the bill of rights have always been susceptible to the criticism that they are "parchment protections."

this the founders knew.

all understood that resort to arms would be necessary in the face of faction or a powerful man seeking to usurp the rights and liberties of individuals, and that only arms could adequately resist the imposition of tyranny.

we are to that point.

as rod says in his comment to another post, we are at "the tripping point."

if obama, feinstein, reid keep pushing, there is no alternative except to have the matter tried by god, the ultimate magistrate.

in essence, trial by combat.

i have no embarrassment advocating that very thing.

if that sort of thinking was good enough for john locke, sir william blackstone, jay, madison, hamilton, washington, jefferson and a host of other worthies among our founding fathers, it is entirely suitable and good enough for the likes of me.

i feel very comfortable bulwarked by their thinking, and by their example as they acted in the real world.

john jay

[john jay]

p.s. "praise the lord, and pass the ammunition."