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January 10, 2013


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Wonder if those "entry weapons" will use .40s? Would explain all the ammo they've been buying up.


JJ -
The aim-points for your 12 Ga are good ones. Better to go to the lower one. Why you ask? If there are any pellets that pass through or pass by the initial target, they are in line and low enough to strike follow-on targets. You are right about the 62 grain penetrators, they will dig their way through body armor if fired into the same area one after another. My opinion is that the shotgun is more effective in close quarters than the carbine or smg (even in the hands of trained operators). A word to the wise, don't wait for them to come begin engagement through the door or window before they enter - you will get more rounds off before being engaged.

By the way, has Milton been annexed by Walla Walla or WA?

More comments later.


Correction: A word to the wise, don't wait for them to come [inside] begin engagement through the door or window before they enter - you will get more rounds off before being engaged.


A side comment: I believe that much of what we are hearing from the press is a large part of the diss-information campaign. It is as much as trowing crap up against the wall to see what sticks as it is the actual plan of attack on the Second Ammendment. Your thoughts?

john jay


the .40 s&w is a pistol round, and a very potent one.

it is quite popular in law enforcement, more powerful than the 9's and not so hard on the shooter as the .45 acp full house load.

entry teams quite likely would be armed with them, but, as side arms.

john jay

john jay


the press is an administration/leftist psy ops operation, and nothing more.

designed to intimidate and coerce. the press enjoys no immunity for their actions, they are committed leftist operatives, and nothing more.

the good thing for the left, is that the press is peopled by those who aren't smart enough to understand how they are being used.

useful idiots, in other words.

good advice on the use of weapons if attacked. the only bad thing about a shotgun is limited ammo stores on board the weapon. but, what you hit, is gonna feel it. for a bit.

as to m-f and walla squared. walla walla sits above the border about 3 miles, m-f below it about 4 miles. lots of "cross fertilization" goes on between them, and what you hear on one side of the border is what you hear on the other.

milton freewater is about 4250 in population, walla walla/college place about 35,000 or so.

they always pasted us in football, but, when i was in high school, we beat them in wrestling, track and baseball, on occassion.

mac-hi pioneers, the wa-hi blue devils.

oh, yeah. laughing.


john jay

p.s. and, in basketball.

but, in football, they were the s.e.c. to us, ... , too many big kids to deal with.


JJ -
Was just wondering why WW police would be invading another town of another state.

Consider, granted the shotgun has limited capacity compared to the AR. But what it lacks in capacity, it makes up in graphic terror impact. Typically, if the first two or three members of an FE team go down, the remainder pull back to re group. Case in point, the ATF thirty-man entry team that tried to take down Koresh in Waco. They were not successful as the "legends in their own minds" had envisioned. In fact they failed miserably, and if it were not for the humanity of the Davidians, the whole platoon would have been killed. They ran out of ammo because of little or no fire discipline and quickly sued for truce to gather their dead and wounded to withdraw and wait for reinforcements.

For a single target, the size will be limited to a team (5-7 men) and usually accompanied with a perimeter cover. So when they show up on your front pourch, the team is the initial group with which to deal; the others will be in an overwatch position. A shotgun with a magazine tube extension will do nicely to undo the best laid plans and buy ample time to switch to a carbine and reload the shotgun. The next phase is usually a negotiation phase while secondary attack or siege plans are re visited. However, in the unlikely event that the second assault is initiated with riddling the house, have a place to get small in. Like you say, some of us are destined to become martyrs and urban legends for the cause. Your thoughts?

john jay


i have the walla walla police in oregon because i am an idiot. simple as that.

yes, there are some jurisdictional niceties to be observed, even in this day and age.

as to the rest of your article, you do a service to my readers and me w/ regard to the tactical considerations involved in storming a house.

these are good things for all to know. i've been looking around my house for a "get small & hunker spot," and i am afraid i have no likely places.

they'll just have to come down the basement stairs and get me. just like an old bear in a cave.


p.s. as to the shotgun in the house, i don't favor OO buck. for the distances involved, i think no. 1 or no. 2 shot will work just fine, and actually has a little more wallop to it.

and, no reason getting magnum shells. just normal 2 3/4" stuff will work fine. pretty devastating at close range.

john jay


if someone comes to your house and all they are armed with are .40's, it has been your lucky day.

but, i doubt anyone anticipating even the possibility of a gun fight is gonna be armed w/ a .40 s & w as his primary arm.

just not very likely.

they use the .40's for "practice," and as a "pre-game psych up", and not for the real stuff.

just like fighting knives, lasers and fighting flashlights it's all lipstick on a whore. just advertisement.

john jay


the saiga shotgun in it's best conversion with the 12 shot stick mag or 20 shot drum would seem to fill the bill nicely in the above tactical scenario. I have a nice sure fire scout light on mine ready to go. It is a very useful force multiplier


Another thing to remember is a gallon zip lock bag full of marbles full of vaseline. if the tac team comes a calling dump the vaseline coated marbles on the floor and wait for the tac team to stack themsleves on the floor. A simple flare pistol would solve the rest.

john jay


let me ask a very stupid question, if i may.--

does vaseline burn? if so, how vigorously? and, if i do this in my house, or on my porch, do i burn my house down, around me? (a highly undesirable situation, from my point of view.)

but, i am intrigued by this, to say the least.

tell me, do you have more things along this line?

john jay

p.s. how much vaseline?

john jay


the only saiga shotgun i ever saw being fired was pretty impressive, but jammed on the second to last shell in the magazine.

i don't say this to condemn the gun, only to report what i saw.

is this something that pops up in the literature/use, or is this not heard of very often.

i really don't know much about them.

john jay

john jay

p.s. your further comments based on your use, or what you have witnessed, or even read, ... , are entirely welcome, and invited.



I think it would be WAY more successful to shoot them from the back as they are entering your neighbor's home.

I'm sure they will become easily identifiable as a raid team once they start.

So when you see a raid team on the move it would better tactics to be prepared already to shoot them from behind.

If enough people were like this they couldn't get anything done.

They very well may rethink that oath they are breaking.

Roadblocks to take your weapons would have to be treated the same way. Shoot them from a distance before you get there.

john jay


good ideas, all.

only trouble is, in my neighborhood, everybody else is nice.


p.s. nice to have someone covering your 6, nice to cover someone's 6.


I doubt most of my neighbors have much resolve. Most are from Mexico and half of those hardly speak english. Many may even think confiscation is a good idea, yet I know they all have guns so I guess we'll see what happens.

Regardless, if SHTF I won't be staying at my house to find out.

As to my suggestions, I'm convinced if enough people played like this it would be effective.

A bumper sticker declaring:
"Oath-breakers are fair game" may make a difference too. In a 'getting the word out kinda' way.

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