you like apples, muslim rage boy? ... well, how do you like these apples? ...

there is no abrogation by mohammed's revelation, no change to the torah and gospels by his prophesy.  i say that with some authority, because according to the koran i speak with the authority of god.

there is one scripture, and one scripture only, and it is god's.

islam holds this, if only muslims will read.--

thus, from sura 41, "verses made clear."

40.  those who distort the meaning of our message are not hidden from us.  … .  do whatever you want, god certainly sees everything you do.  41.  those who reject the qur’an when it come to them—though it is an unassailable scripture 

42.  which falsehood cannot touch from any angle, a revelation sent down from the wise one, worthy of all praise--  43.  [should remember that] you [prophet] are not told anything that the previous messengers were not told: your lord is a lord of forgiveness, but also of painful punishment.

45.  we gave the scripture to moses but disputes arose about it—if it were not for a decree that had already been issued from your lord, they would already have been judged—and still they are doubtful and suspicious of it.

sura 29, "[verses] made clear,"  verses 40-45[not inclusive], the qur'an, a translation by muhammad a.s. abdel haleem, oxford university press, 2004, u.s.a., pages309-10.

god says quite clearly that mohammed is told nothing not established in the scripture by previous revelation.  and, there is that word again, “scripture” used to the exclusion of the word scriptures which dictates that the scripture is a unity and not a series of god’s relations.

as if to show this by way of example, verse 45 mentions moses.

this is, you should forgive the expression, quite revealing to my way of thinking.

it is so because of god’s continuing turbulent relation to the jews of the torah, or, old testament if you prefer.  if you will remember the stories in the bible, you will remember that god talked personally with the hebrews, and though he sometimes dictated and issued edicts, more often he bargained and cajoled to obtain and impose his will.

so it was with abraham, on numerous occasions.  the night before god destroyed sodom and gomorrah, for instance, two angels visited abraham and told him of their task.  (the way i read the passage, suggests that god was one of the visitors.  well, little matter, it is either god or his emissaries.)

now, we may believe that god is firm in his decision, presumably not taking such matters lightly.

abraham and family are informed that sodom’s doom may be averted if a certain number of honest souls & devout souls are found in its confines.  abraham thinks the number arbitrary and unfair, and suggests and argues for a smaller number.  and, proceeds to argue and bargain with god!!

abraham suggests that the number be lowered to 50 righteous souls, and then bargains god and/or his emissaries down to 10 such persons in number.

well, to make a story short, the visitors travel to lot’s house, and destroy the city the next day after arriving, not having found even 10 righteous persons to save the city.

and, thus it was with moses and the jews.  on several occasions, god instructed that census be taken in preparation of the destruction of the jews, and on several occasions moses interceded with god, and bargained with him to avoid such a disaster.

so, yes, god is a jealous and vengeful god when he gets his nose in a twist.  but, he is also capable of great patience and forbearance, and forgiveness.

nothing in the koran, which places a lot of emphasis upon god’s wrath and the imposition of harsh judgment, changes any of this, and nothing in the koran articles either the scripture or the accounts of things in the torah and the new testament.

41.  those who reject the qur’an when it come to them—though it is an unassailable scripture 

42.  which falsehood cannot touch from any angle, a revelation sent down from the wise one, worthy of all praise--  43.  [should remember that] you [prophet] are not told anything that the previous messengers were not told:

so, it should be remembered that mohammed is told nothing not already related to previous prophets/messengers, and already related in the scripture of the torah and the gospels.

my point is simple.

and, established by the koran itself.

there is nothing in the koran that countermands or abrogates that which has been related previously in the first two testaments of the bible, the torah and the gospels, and there are no instructions in the bible which are not binding upon muslims the same as those contained in the koran.

in short, the koran is not authority for muslims to be killing anyone.

the ten commandments bind muslims, and inform them, the same as christians and jews.

nor, is there anything in the koran that commands christians and jews contrary to the instruction by which they abide and as found in the first two testaments of the bible.

in short, jihad terror as carried on by islam is contrary to the strictures of god, for which they will find eternal punishment, ... ,  in the fire, into which they will be cast on the day of judgment, where it will first consume their ears, lips and tongues.  (if i read my koran closely enough).

john jay @ 09.08.2011

 

Comments

[ExAFCrewDog]

How do the radical Muslims arrive at their interpretations? How can the radical Imams encourage violence?

Mohammed, I've read, believed in the God of Abraham. How can his words (the Koran) become so distorted?

Aren't all Arabs Semites? As are the Jews? Why would Mohammed instruct his followers, as some Imams teach, that the Jews must be destroyed?

Forgive me for dumping my frustration on you. Your article sparked it. Thank you for your words.

[john jay]

ExAFCrewDog:

this is not the only such passage in the koran.

literally dozens of passages relates the prophesy and revelation of noah, moses, abraham and jesus.

oddly enough, john the baptist and those who prophesied the coming of christ are not mentioned.

christ as trinity/messiah is rejected by mohammed, but, the stature of jesus as a "messenger" of allah, is not.

the koran states innumerable times that the scripture as presented by previous prophets/messengers is the "scripture" revealed in the koran.

same god. same prophets. same scripture. not scriptures, as in matters sequential or subsequent, but "scripture," as in unity.

and, it will be up in a day or so, the koran states that those who are not muslims but who follow the straight path of the "scripture" will have salvation.

so, yes indeed, your questions, ... , to my mind, my way of thinking, and my read of the koran, ... , are precisely my questions.

john jay

[john jay]

p.s. you will please note, no muslims have provided exegesis of these passages.

i would be very interested to understand why these words do not mean precisely what they say, in the view of islam. jjjay